George Foreman vs Lennox Lewis Prime for Prime.

[Willie Pep 229]

I thought about that and then contrasted it with Lewis taking Vitalie's shots. I came to the conclusion you cannot "not have a chin" and take the bombs Lewis took that fight. Its complicated imo... Lewis had a tendency to come into a fight and just not look mentally prepared. I saw him like this on some occasions including both occasions when he was mollywapped. Foreman also took a lot from Lyle. Lyle could hit hard. I honestly have no piece of proof that tells me who might survive this (much less win it!) lol.

Im kind of picturing a Vitali Lewis type affair... a war of attrition with neither guy wanting to give an inch.

Dud Foreman (I) have any ability to move backwards when needed, at all?

Could he even back out of an exchange when he needed to?

[billeau2]

Dud Foreman (I) have any ability to move backwards when needed, at all?

Could he even back out of an exchange when he needed to?

Well... lets answer that in a circumspect fashion, it might tell us a good deal. Foreman was brought up around many fine fighters. Sonny Liston seems to have been a major influence on George. Foreman did many things Liston taught, the way he set up his shots, his finishing ability, even the way he controlled an opponent by moving the shoulders... BUT one major difference between the two was footwork. Liston maintained a solid linear affront, aided by back and fourth movements. Much as Manny Pacquio does, Liston would come in hard off an angled line and trade while moving the opponent back, so the opponent lost their base to it from and was on the run.

Foreman, on the other hand cut the ring down. George created his angles by moving parallel to the opponent and minimizing the space, which is how cutting the ring works: In other words, if I am across the ring from you, I can leap, step, in a line towards you, or I can move off a Hypotenuse line, creating a funnel where the other two sides of the triangle meet.

When you fight off a line, acceleration is positive but you can move in ether direction. When you cut the ring, you really cannot maintain your angles if you move "back" off the hypotenuse you create. Either of these strategies is valid but, both risk "chasing a puncher." In a straight attack, you have to make sure you create an angle to the opponent because backing straight up, against reach is dangerous... or even backing up against a pressure fighter (witness Ali getting tagged by Frazier when he went straight back). When cutting the ring, one must always maintain an angle to the opponent... You can really see this in the old SouthEast Asian fighting systems, better than boxing. Especially With a knife, or stick, in these systems, you always enter at an angle!

So: Foreman would not really ever want to back up... If he could not cut the ring he would want to clinch, fight inside, or set up a pocket and counter punch. Compare Foreman to an ambush fighter like Wilder, or David Haye... two other guys who punch well! Both Wilder and Haye are content to stay away and not use any footwork to speak of... rather they stay back daring the opponent to come in, and when they are good and ready they use fast feet and pounce across the ring winging their combos. But you could not fight this way against the skill level of fighters in Foreman and Liston's time because no fighter would back off the opponent. You see guys like Whitehall, a small fighter for a heavyweight and he never gives Liston an inch. Stay close to the snake says the mongoose lol! Ditto for guys like FRazier who would not back up either...

It might seem this is primitive (not backing up) but consider: Once you back up you cannot throw with power, unless you are setting a trap. And setting traps happens in a 3 foot radius of combat, from the tip of each fighters. front hand, after thjis distance your trap will be discovered, either with feint, or because there are too many possibilites that can occur when range increases. AND... The big one? if you back off at a distance of greater than 3 feet? The other guy will simply pursue you and set you up. So, I do believe that the ambush strategy works because of a lack of fundamentals and quality opponents. Jeez sorry for the rant Willy! Hope ot meant something...lol

[4truth]

The world never saw a prime Foreman. It took Foreman more than 10 years to recover mentally from Zaire. He never realized his prime before he retired and his potential had mostly passed him by when he returned.

I'd have picked 25 year old Foreman over 25 year old Lewis, so there's that anyway.

[Nash out]

Lewis was very good, but I think time has been too kind to him. I feel he has become a little overrated. Being able to come back from a knockdown is a very important thing, especially at HW with the lights out power. He was knocked down twice and counted out both times.

Also, not being able to go through the gears when in his prime vs a finished Mercer was a poor showing as well, and no two ways about it, Mercer was robbed vs prime Lewis. And his best win was Vitali, but there is always an element of luck with bad cuts, and we all know he ducked the rematch.

His win over the shell of Tyson was one of the biggest non-events as far as the fight goes in boxing history for such big names in the sport. Mike Tyson was no better than Michael Sprott at that stage of his career. Nash out

[QueensburyRules]

Lennox has too many tools in the toolbox.

- - Retirement card works best for Lewie, his specialty when the prime contenders like Vit came through and exposed him.

[mrbig1]

I give Lewis a pass on that fight. Kirk Johnson pulled out of the fight two weeks before. To his credit Vitali stepped in. To his credit Lewis took the fight. Lewis is much faster and light on his feet compared to Foreman. Plus, all Lewis has to do is hang on for 6 or 7 rounds and foreman is gassed.

[max baer]

- - Retirement card works best for Lewie, his specialty when the prime contenders like Vit came through and exposed him.

i really think lewis is the best hw ever. just he took on fighter after fighter at their peak ranging from bruno and garry mason to galotta and tua and ruddock all at their best and there are many more. two lucky punches is all and that can happen to any boxer. He avoided no one and fought men who were at their peak. he also had around 2 stone of muscle more on foreman who was around 16 stone.
how can anyone argue with me. holyfeild too he took them all on. he also is a very slick stylish man.

[QueensburyRules]

i really think lewis is the best hw ever. just he took on fighter after fighter at their peak ranging from bruno and garry mason to galotta and tua and ruddock all at their best and there are many more. two lucky punches is all and that can happen to any boxer. He avoided no one and fought men who were at their peak. he also had around 2 stone of muscle more on foreman who was around 16 stone.
how can anyone argue with me. holyfeild too he took them all on. he also is a very slick stylish man.

- - Lewie also light in the loafers as Vit retired him prematurely at his greatest earnings period.

Ruddock was shot, Tua and Golota nice, but past it Bruno was outboxing him, and past it Field muscled up to him all night the first fight. Mason? Perry Mason would be a better scalp.

Foreman is bigger, more powerful that Lewie who would quickly discover that. During his prime years, he was trained down in weight by old school Sadler who was brought up by Doc Kearns.

[max baer]

- - Lewie also light in the loafers as Vit retired him prematurely at his greatest earnings period.

Ruddock was shot, Tua and Golota nice, but past it Bruno was outboxing him, and past it Field muscled up to him all night the first fight. Mason? Perry Mason would be a better scalp.

Foreman is bigger, more powerful that Lewie who would quickly discover that. During his prime years, he was trained down in weight by old school Sadler who was brought up by Doc Kearns.

ive just found this take a look and direct me to other types if you know of any
https://www.martialbot.com/boxing/co...george-foreman

i think lewis fought so many top guys like morrison and briggs on and on top guys.
come on queeny you can do better then that. how can you possibly argue foreman over lewis. lewis simply fought the best and won.
you've been listening too much to your lions and tigers in your personal zoo on your ranch

[Willow The Wisp]

A very close call! Two of the top heavyweights ever being talked about here.
Pretty strong concensus that Big George finds him and seals the deal, from 10 years ago's posters; and for the most part, 10 more years to reflect on that hasn't changed the voting tally. The reasons are well articulated throughout the thread. Lennox did a host of important things better than the afro-ver George, without question. Unfortunately, none of those things would help him hear the final bell, IMO. Well, that's what happens when greats meet greats. Such encounters lay bare the deep, deep tissue. I'm guessing that the superb Lennox Lewis doesn't look like he's going to lose, until he does.

Holy smokes but wasn't moneytheman an epic moron.