Rocky Marciano VS Mike Tyson.

[Hous]

I hate throwing out a tidbit like this in butterfly fashion, but Marciano commonly used gloves no heavier than 8 oz. Meaning, he basically had a taped hand that was protected when slamming it home against his opponents. Foreman used 14 and 16 oz. gloves with more cushion and higher resiliency to padding redistribution. George Foreman with gloves half the size he was accustomed to would have torn people's heads off.

Ive never heard that, Ive done some searches on the net with zero sites to clear this up. I don't it is possible for Marciano to box in the pros in the 40s and 50s with less then 8oz gloves, maybe amateurs but not pro.

If this was a true statement everytime Marciano was brought up this would be too. I think its false.

I may be wrong, provide proof.

Marciano took hits from punchers harder than Tyson and still didnt go down(Louis), showed no emotion. He KOed stronger chins than Tyson (LaStanza. For these most important reasons that Marciano scored 2:0, it is clear to me Marciano would probley beat Tyson.

[BKM-]

Ive never heard that, Ive done some searches on the net with zero sites to clear this up. I don't it is possible for Marciano to box in the pros in the 40s and 50s with less then 8oz gloves, maybe amateurs but not pro.

If this was a true statement everytime Marciano was brought up this would be too. I think its false.

I may be wrong, provide proof.

Marciano took hits from punchers harder than Tyson and still didnt go down(Louis), showed no emotion. He KOed stronger chins than Tyson (LaStanza. For these most important reasons that Marciano scored 2:0, it is clear to me Marciano would probley beat Tyson.

Marciano didn't take hard punches from punchers who could punch harder than a prime Tyson. Louis had lost some speed and effect on his punches(Not that much though). Not saying Marciano couldn't take a Tyson punch, im saying that if he gets too often he would be stopped. Same for Tyson. He would not be able to take TOO many punches from Marciano before being stopped.

[Brassangel]

The oz. issue is often brought up when discussing damage inflicted/taken during different eras of heavyweight history. Not only were they lighter, but it was common for the padding to shift towards the wrist or the back of the hand as the fight progressed. While this may cause the knuckles to bruise a little more, it also did some nasty things to people's faces.

Information like this is tough to come by. Often times it is best to find it in books detailing boxer biographies than to browse the internet. If, for example, one reads Floyd Patterson's biography, it is noted that Sonny Liston was one of the first professional fighters to use gloves that were 14-15 oz. in a title fight. Even with heavier, cushier gloves, he was still clobbering people.

Now, while Marciano probably took shots from guys who hit harder in one shot than Tyson did, few of them put punches together like Tyson did. Joe Louis would have, had the fight been ten years earlier. I just see this as a bad style matchup for Marciano, even though he's a greater champion overall.

[BKM-]

The oz. issue is often brought up when discussing damage inflicted/taken during different eras of heavyweight history. Not only were they lighter, but it was common for the padding to shift towards the wrist or the back of the hand as the fight progressed. While this may cause the knuckles to bruise a little more, it also did some nasty things to people's faces.

Information like this is tough to come by. Often times it is best to find it in books detailing boxer biographies than to browse the internet. If, for example, one reads Floyd Patterson's biography, it is noted that Sonny Liston was one of the first professional fighters to use gloves that were 14-15 oz. in a title fight. Even with heavier, cushier gloves, he was still clobbering people.

Now, while Marciano probably took shots from guys who hit harder in one shot than Tyson did , few of them put punches together like Tyson did. Joe Louis would have, had the fight been ten years earlier. I just see this as a bad style matchup for Marciano, even though he's a greater champion overall.

Who? Tell me wich fighters did.

[Hous]

Who? Tell me wich fighters did.

Rex Layne, a powerful puncher, who knocked out 25 of his first 36 opponents. 69%
Harry "Kid" Mathews, with 61 KOs in 87 wins. 70%.
Archie Moore, the man who holds the record for the most knock outs of any fighter who ever lived; 145 KOs in 199 wins. 73%.
Walcott, 30 KOs in 50 wins, for 60%.
Joe Louis, 49 KOs in 63 wins, 78%
Eddie Ross 23 KOs in 26 wins at time they fought. 88%

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm

In 2003, the writers of Ring Magazine published a ranking of the 100 greatest punchers of all-time. Not unlike an all-time pound-for-pound ranking, this list compares fighters across different weight categories and different eras. As such, it's entirely open for debate ...

1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
3. Jimmy Wilde
4. Archie Moore
5. Sandy Saddler
6. Stanley Ketchell
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
11. Sugar Ray Robinson
12. Ruben Olivares
13. Wilfredo Gomez
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson

Clearly places Marciano above Tyson for having a more powerful punch, Tyson has like 40 pounds on him too. Marciano = 187lbs Tyson = 220? Anyways Marciano KOed, and was struck by the number one and number 4 most powerful punchers in history of the sport.

I used this site as a reference because it doesnt favor my opinion either, i would place Marciano much higher up for the reason that he KOed the highest percentage of heavyweights in history, many of them were iron chins aswell. I would place Marciano above Sugar Ray Robinson for more powerful puncher.

[Yogi]

Ive never heard that, Ive done some searches on the net with zero sites to clear this up. I don't it is possible for Marciano to box in the pros in the 40s and 50s with less then 8oz gloves, maybe amateurs but not pro.

If this was a true statement everytime Marciano was brought up this would be too. I think its false.

I may be wrong, provide proof.

In March of 1948 the National Boxing Association adopted their 21-Point Safety Code (mandatory eight count brought in use, KO'd fighter must be inactive/suspended for so long, etc., etc.), and one of the new rules they implemented was that any and all professional boxing matches under their banner must be fought with the use of eight ounce gloves at the minimum...That included any and all weight classes.

Very soon after those new rules were implemented by state athletic commissions such as California, New York, and many other states with frequent boxing shows. There were even some 'lesser' state/boxing commissions that took that a step higher and made it mandatory for ten ounce gloves to be used in all boxing matches, but those were mainly mid-western state commissions.

The many changes to make the sport safer was a direct result of Jimmy Doyle losing his life after challenging Sugar Ray Robinson for the welterweight title.

[Brassangel]

In March of 1948 the National Boxing Association adopted their 21-Point Safety Code (mandatory eight count brought in use, KO'd fighter must be inactive/suspended for so long, etc., etc.), and one of the new rules they implemented was that any and all professional boxing matches under their banner must be fought with the use of eight ounce gloves at the minimum...That included any and all weight classes.

Very soon after those new rules were implemented by state athletic commissions such as California, New York, and many other states with frequent boxing shows. There were even some 'lesser' state/boxing commissions that took that a step higher and made it mandatory for ten ounce gloves to be used in all boxing matches, but those were mainly mid-western state commissions.

The many changes to make the sport safer was a direct result of Jimmy Doyle losing his life after challenging Sugar Ray Robinson for the welterweight title.

Thanks, Yogi. This helps tie a few details together.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

While I imagine that those who have made up their minds about this battle will stay that way regardless of the information presented, I will conclude that this would be a heck of a battle. I do believe, without a doubt, that Tyson would be the aggressor; he's faster, more accurate, and a good defensive fighter. Marciano is almost impossible to put away, however. Joe Louis may have been able to do it if the fight had been ten years earlier. I wouldn't include Louis in the "punches harder than Tyson" category here, as the Brown Bomber was not at his best when he fought Marciano. He certainly didn't strike harder than Mike did by that time.

Even so, it would be a bloody, bloody mess. Throw Liston in there and let all three of them go at it!

[BKM-]

Rex Layne, a powerful puncher, who knocked out 25 of his first 36 opponents. 69%
Harry "Kid" Mathews, with 61 KOs in 87 wins. 70%.
Archie Moore, the man who holds the record for the most knock outs of any fighter who ever lived; 145 KOs in 199 wins. 73%.
Walcott, 30 KOs in 50 wins, for 60%.
Joe Louis, 49 KOs in 63 wins, 78%
Eddie Ross 23 KOs in 26 wins at time they fought. 88%

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm


Clearly places Marciano above Tyson for having a more powerful punch, Tyson has like 40 pounds on him too. Marciano = 187lbs Tyson = 220? Anyways Marciano KOed, and was struck by the number one and number 4 most powerful punchers in history of the sport.

I used this site as a reference because it doesnt favor my opinion either, i would place Marciano much higher up for the reason that he KOed the highest percentage of heavyweights in history, many of them were iron chins aswell. I would place Marciano above Sugar Ray Robinson for more powerful puncher.

NONE of those fighters hit harder than a prime Tyson fool. A past his prime Joe Louis comes close but he lost a lot on his punches by that time.

[Dempsey1238]

I hate throwing out a tidbit like this in butterfly fashion, but Marciano commonly used gloves no heavier than 8 oz. Meaning, he basically had a taped hand that was protected when slamming it home against his opponents. Foreman used 14 and 16 oz. gloves with more cushion and higher resiliency to padding redistribution. George Foreman with gloves half the size he was accustomed to would have torn people's heads off.

On the original topic: Marciano wasn't a defensive fighter, wouldn't have reach or height advantage going for him, and Tyson put punches together with trigger-quick speed. He was 215 1/2 at his prime, but he fought with the speed of someone at 165. I honestly don't see this fight going favorably for Marciano.

Just to note, I do believe that Marciano ranks higher on the list of all-time heavyweights than Tyson, but that doesn't mean he'd win the head-to-head, if that makes any sense. (Also, more critics are starting to recognize Tyson as a top 15 and even a top 10 all-time heavyweight because of his amazing skills and physical gifts, regardless of how his career took a flush.)

Foreman did fight with 8 Oz gloves though. He had 8oz vs Chalvo and Pires, and Foreman did not killed them. Nor did he walk out of the ring with there heads attach to his gloves. I think the Oz gloves thing is over rated.

[Brassangel]

Take instances, like his matches with Frazier and Norton, where he really messed people up and give him the same equipment Rocky used. When he was ripe and on target, that's a scary notion.

The oz. thing is sometimes overrated, but things like the differences in conditioning between fighters from one era to the next is often overlooked. Now, while I believe that Marciano was a better champion than George Foreman, I certainly don't believe, after lots of film study, that Marciano could hit harder than Foreman. Marciano did, however, pit punches together better than Big George and thus may have been more effective.

I guess when I think of what would happen to an aggressor who goes after Mike, I picture Peter McNeely and how effective that plan was NOT; even after a 3+ year layoff. While Marciano is 1000% better than the Hurricane, he would leave himself way too available to Mike's combinations. If anything, there would be stoppage. I guess it's not worth continuing this arguments as everybody is one way or the other while I would prefer to just see it happen.

Does anybody remember when ESPN did those film edited, digital renderings of the great football dynasties throughout history and put them in a tournament against one another? They should do that with heavyweight champions, and leave out anything stereotypical (ie: ear biting, 15th round hooks, etc.).