Floyd Mayweather's new place in history...

[StarshipTrooper]

That is simply ridiculous. I guess for you there are only keep busy fights left in boxing with the exception of Mayweather-Pacquiao.

Pacquiao is the only fight at the moment that can enhance Mayweather's all-time standing and vice versa. The Clottey fight was a "keep busy" fight for Manny. Lets face it: Most title fights are keep busy fights for the champions that they take between the few fights that are legitimately going to raise their standing. Zora Folley was a keep busy fight for Ali for example.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

I get your point about his reflexes being slowed with age, but let's not compare a fighter who's style relied 100% on his superhuman reflexes. Mosley isn't a fighter that relies on his reflexes (neither is Hopkins, which is why he can still perform at the level he does in his old age), so that comparison is better suited to Floyd, not Shane, as once Floyd loses his speed and reflexes his career is over.

Mosley is still capable of winning many fights.

All fighters rely on reflexes: It's the single most important physical attribute in boxing. You're quite right that some fighters rely on them more than others (pre-exile Ali and Roy Jones come to mind) but all fighters rely on reflexes at least to some extent. A great example is Tyson: After he got out of prison his reflexes had slid (contributed to by weight lifting while incarcerated imo). Before prison he had been a combination puncher while after he was loading up for one big shot. While he certainly would beat the typical fighter that hovers in the typical top-10 contenders list at that stage of his career, there's no way he'd beat an in-prime ATG and I wouldn't favor him over an in-prime near-great either (though I would give him a very good punchers chance against the weaker chinned near-greats). Reflexes matter even for punchers! That's why my definition for a fighter being post-prime is when that fighter's reflexes start to slide, and my definition of a shot fighter is when those reflexes are completely gone. Think of it this way: Who would you favor in a matchup of the Hopkins who fought Trinidad who still had his reflexes against the Hopkins who fought Pavlik who's reflexes were severely diminished? My money would be on the Hopkins of the Trinidad fight everytime.

Poet

[CarlosG815]

Pacquiao is the only fight at the moment that can enhance Mayweather's all-time standing and vice versa. The Clottey fight was a "keep busy" fight for Manny. Lets face it: Most title fights are keep busy fights for the champions that they take between the few fights that are legitimately going to raise their standing. Zora Folley was a keep busy fight for Ali for example.

Poet

So beating the #1 WW in the world did nothing to enhance Floyd's career, even though he's only been fighting at that weight for short time?

I give Floyd a lot of respect for that win. Not just for winning, but for the way he dominated - it was a brilliant performance.

Pacquiao beating Clottey is not comparable to Floyd beating Mosley, IMO. Mosley is better at this point in his career than Clottey ever was, and we're talking about the #1 WW.

I earned a lot of respect for Floyd last night - he gave me my money's worth for the first time and I think history will remember that fight differently than the guys not giving him any credit for it.

If Pacquiao wasn't scared before, he is now. Roach is going to have to pull some crazy tricks out of his bag to beat the man I saw that night.

[CarlosG815]

All fighters rely on reflexes: It's the single most important physical attribute in boxing. You're quite right that some fighters rely on them more than others (pre-exile Ali and Roy Jones come to mind) but all fighters rely on reflexes at least to some extent. A great example is Tyson: After he got out of prison his reflexes had slid (contributed to by weight lifting while incarcerated imo). Before prison he had been a combination puncher while after he was loading up for one big shot. While he certainly would beat the typical fighter that hovers in the typical top-10 contenders list at that stage of his career, there's no way he'd beat an in-prime ATG and I wouldn't favor him over an in-prime near-great either (though I would give him a very good punchers chance against the weaker chinned near-greats). Reflexes matter even for punchers! That's why my definition for a fighter being post-prime is when that fighter's reflexes start to slide, and my definition of a shot fighter is when those reflexes are completely gone. Think of it this way: Who would you favor in a matchup of the Hopkins who fought Trinidad who still had his reflexes against the Hopkins who fought Pavlik who's reflexes were severely diminished? My money would be on the Hopkins of the Trinidad fight everytime.

Poet

Shane is still extremely fast. His speed hasn't diminished to the point where it's blatantly obvious. He still looks as fast as he did 10 years ago when he was LOST and crying to daddy when he lost to De La Hoya.

I'm not saying he hasn't lost some speed but there's still plenty of it left. To be honest I don't think Mosley at his fastest would have looked any faster than he did May 1st 2010.

He was totally outmatched.

[StarshipTrooper]

So beating the #1 WW in the world did nothing to enhance Floyd's career, even though he's only been fighting at that weight for short time?

I give Floyd a lot of respect for that win. Not just for winning, but for the way he dominated - it was a brilliant performance.

Pacquiao beating Clottey is not comparable to Floyd beating Mosley, IMO. Mosley is better at this point in his career than Clottey ever was, and we're talking about the #1 WW.

I earned a lot of respect for Floyd last night - he gave me my money's worth for the first time and I think history will remember that fight differently than the guys not giving him any credit for it.

If Pacquiao wasn't scared before, he is now. Roach is going to have to pull some crazy tricks out of his bag to beat the man I saw that night.

I don't put much stock in ratings. Ratings are based on peoples perceptions not on reality. Did it ever occur to you that Shane SHOULDN'T have been ranked #1? There's no way a past it 38 year old belongs at the top of a division's ratings. If a past it 38 year old IS the best fighter in the division then that speaks more about how weak the division is than how good that fighter is at that stage of his career. Since this is the Welterweight division I seriously doubt it's weak so I'm reasonably certain that a 38 year old Shane Mosley is NOT the best the division has to offer. Unless, of course, my faith in the overall strength of the Welterweight division is seriously misplaced.

Poet

[DeepSleep]

I don't put much stock in ratings. Ratings are based on peoples perceptions not on reality. Did it ever occur to you that Shane SHOULDN'T have been ranked #1? There's no way a past it 38 year old belongs at the top of a division's ratings. If a past it 38 year old IS the best fighter in the division then that speaks more about how weak the division is than how good that fighter is at that stage of his career. Since this is the Welterweight division I seriously doubt it's weak so I'm reasonably certain that a 38 year old Shane Mosley is NOT the best the division has to offer. Unless, of course, my faith in the overall strength of the Welterweight division is seriously misplaced.

Poet

What Welterweights would you rank over Shane outside of Mayweather/PacMan/P.Williams?.The division isn't nearly as great as it was viewed a few years ago. The usual suspects for top welterweight would be:

Mayweather - Beat who at 147???
PacMan - Great win over Clottey.
P.Will - At 154 - 160
Berto - Strong argument could be made given his string of quality wins.
Clottey - Very very tough but too anemic on offense
Cotto - At 154, Margo changed him sadly
Collazo - Trying his hand at 154
Zaveck - Solid Fundamentals but his hand speed leaves ??? to me.

I think your overestimating the strength of the WW division, it isn't nearly as loaded as it was say two years ago.

Also I'd imagine that if Mayweather has only a few reasonable options to improve his legacy;

PacMan - The most logical fight but I have a sad feeling that PacMan won't ever go in the ring with him given all the nonsense surrounding the fight.

P. Williams - The Mayweather's know he would be an absolute nightmare for Floyd so I doubt this will ever happen.

S. Martinez - Better than P.Williams but still very high risk to fight him at 154 compared to fighting PacMan at 147.

[wmute]

Pacquiao is the only fight at the moment that can enhance Mayweather's all-time standing and vice versa. The Clottey fight was a "keep busy" fight for Manny. Lets face it: Most title fights are keep busy fights for the champions that they take between the few fights that are legitimately going to raise their standing. Zora Folley was a keep busy fight for Ali for example.

Poet

Yeah Clottey was definitely a keep busy fight, in fact it was short sub for May

Clottey is Clottey, and was also coming off a loss.

Mosley is Mosley, and had just demolished a guy who was supposed to be a tank.

I mean... it is not a chance that Clottey was available on call, and Mosley was scheduled to fight a unification bout.

So no, Mayweather-Mosley was simply not a keep busy fight.