Muhammad Ali vs The Supersized Heavyweights

[StarshipTrooper]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=68261&page=21

This thread has **** all to do with his resume.This thread hadn't been active in over two and a half years and all you added was two words.

I could dig up all the other threads you have bumped in nsb but I could care less about that section and you're free to troll as much as your heart desires over there.

As I already said,stick to trolling/spamming in the main section and stay the **** out of this section.

MmuhammadM > prinzemanspastic

[Vadrigar.]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=68261&page=21



This thread has **** all to do with his resume.This thread hadn't been active in over two and a half years and all you added was two words.


I could dig up all the other threads you have bumped in nsb but I could care less about that section and you're free to troll as much as your heart desires over there.


As I already said,stick to trolling/spamming in the main section and stay the **** out of this section.

grow some balls.

[sleazyfellow]

Even ali of the early 70s was faster than both the brothers. If you think they could beat ali in the first liston fight, you're either crazy or a klit lover.

[The_Demon]

The truth is watching these guys it seems like they're programmed to fight the same way every time regardless of opponent or circumstances. It's like they all have the exact same trainer who coaches them in the exact same style. I was appalled watching Chambers, Chagaev, and Ibragimov against Wlad. Instead of pushing forward to get inside Wlad's reach they would exactually take steps BACK!!!!! to adjust the range back OUT!!!!! I was like WTF????? They're putting themselves right back out into Wlad's power zone!!!!!! When you have a reach disadvantage you should NEVER take a backwards step. The safest place you can be is INSIDE your opponents reach where they lose leverage on their punches and their power diminishes. Doesn't ANYBODY know how to fight anymore?!?!? What the **** are they teaching these people?!?!?

Poet

Well said

Wlads opponents often seem surprised at his size and his reach,as if they didnt expect it or prepare for it in any way

plus i dont buy this whole 'wlad just makes his opponents look that bad',whilst the paw-paw-paw into clinch is highly impressive (sarcasm) i often feel that its his opponents that make themselves look bad,simply by being so clueless in there

[Suckmedry]

The truth is watching these guys it seems like they're programmed to fight the same way every time regardless of opponent or circumstances. It's like they all have the exact same trainer who coaches them in the exact same style. I was appalled watching Chambers, Chagaev, and Ibragimov against Wlad. Instead of pushing forward to get inside Wlad's reach they would exactually take steps BACK!!!!! to adjust the range back OUT!!!!! I was like WTF????? They're putting themselves right back out into Wlad's power zone!!!!!! When you have a reach disadvantage you should NEVER take a backwards step. The safest place you can be is INSIDE your opponents reach where they lose leverage on their punches and their power diminishes. Doesn't ANYBODY know how to fight anymore?!?!? What the **** are they teaching these people?!?!?

Poet

One reason is those guys aren't really elite level fighters an Wlad makes it pretty hard for guys to get inside with his jab and distancing.

Another reason is they are all intimidated, and after a few rounds it is clear they don't want to be there.

There are many good trainers around today, they wouldn't be telling them in the corner to sit back, move in straight lines and not throw punches, it is just that the fighters are intimidated.

[frankenfrank]

Often on this forum i read topics where members claim Muhammad Ali was overated, Lewis vs Ali would be a 50/50 fight, The Klitschko brothers would be to big for him and to powerful.. lets take a look at their careers and make our case:

Wlad Klitschko - 6ft 6in Vitali - 6ft 7ins Lennox Lewis 6ft 5ins

Fighters Ali fought who measured up to the Super-sized heavies of today in height and power.
George Foreman - 6ft 4in + power
Ron Lyle 6ft 31/12in + power
Earnie Shavers power
Mac Foster 6ft 4in + power
Cleveland Williams 6ft 4in + power
Buster Mathis 6ft 4in + power + skills
Alvin Lewis 6ft 3in
Joe Bugner 6ft 5in
Ernie Terrell 6ft 7in
Ken Norton 6ft 4in + power
Chuck Wepner 6ft 7in

Distorted biased bull**** stats right here.
Foreman was listed as 6'3.5" almost every time.
Lyle was at 6'3".
Mac Foster at 6'2"
Williams at 6'3"
Mathis @ 6'3"
Bugner @ 6'4"
Terrell @ 6'6"
Norton @ 6'3"
The rest I still don't know.
And these stats were already inflated than reality for hype and commercial purposes. Yet sonnyboy decided to add between 1/2 to 2 inches to the already inflated stats.
Nice try sonnyboy .
Not to mention the technique , power and speed departments where these guys fall way behind the Klitschkos and Lewis.

Fighters The Super-sized fought who measure up to Muhammad Ali in skills or height - Ali was 6ft 4in

Michael Grant - 6ft 6in
Henry Akinwande 6ft 7in
Shannon Briggs 6ft 5in
Tyrell Biggs 6ft 5in
Tony Tucker 6ft 5in
Jameel McCline 6ft 6in
Cory Sanders 6ft 5in + power - no skill

Grant is listed @ 6'7" , not that I believe it , but you inflated the former fighters , so in your scale he is 6'8" at least.
Briggs and Sanders actually listed @ 6'4" BTW.
Ali @ 6'3".
Corrie Sanders had no skill .. good for you sonny.
After all , Joe Bugner would have definitely schooled him like no one else ever could had they fought..
Bugner was such a splendid technician after all.. the HW version of James Toney.. wait .. sounds familiar ..ok , he was the HW version of Mike McCallum , no , lets make it Ray Leonard , now it's better.
And Terrell was a Klitschko replica , probably he is the blueprint for Kronk fighters ..
And then Cleveland Williams , a poor man's Oleg Maskaev , or does Hassim Rahman sounds more befitting ?

Height & weigh are completely meaningless it is skill and brutality which count..

Ali was on a completely different level skillwise as the Klitschko brothers & Lennox Lewis and Ali had zero trouble beating fighters who was just as big & tall as those 3 super-sized heavyweights... Muhammad Ali used speed & skills along with a lightening fast jab to beat Ernie Terrell to a pulp leaving his face looking like a plate of meat yet Terrell was taller than the super-sized

Ali took bombs on the chin from Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Williams, Shavers, Frazier, Foster all of who punched far harder than any of the super-sized - Muhammad Ali was never knocked-out, yet Lewis & Wladimir have been poleaxed by mediocre journeymen.

Ali punched hard enough to be the only man to knock out iron-chinned Oscar Bonavena & George Foreman.

The Super-sized are vastly overated in power as they repeatedly struggled to KO opponents other fighters KOd easily..

The argument cannot be made that the super-sized are "HEAVIER" as weight is a hindrance.. in the case of Lennox Lewis he looked a world beater when weighing 225lbs against Ruddock & Mason yet looked nothing like that when weighing 235 - 255lbs and repeatedly struggling or getting KOd by opponents

Both Klitschko brothers have black marks against them as likely steroid users.

please do not call into question the height and weights i have stated, i do not go by Boxrec for my statistics as they are always incorrect... do your homework and you will see that i am correct.

Lets here your case:

And Muhammad Ali took testosterone sonny ..
The majority of the biased posters here will give you a pass for this recent paragraph , but the supersized's opposition was much harder to KO in average than the opposition Ali faced.
And btw , Ali himself did not exactly KO much inferior opposition.
Bonavena and Lyle are not KOs you know.
You probably know the stories surrounding the Liston and Foreman fights but choose to ignore ..
And did Ali KO Doug Jones and the always early sleeper Ken Norton ? He had 3 fights to do so , ok , he came injured to the first , but what about the next 2 ?

[knn]

Wlad Klitschko - 6ft 6in Vitali - 6ft 7ins Lennox Lewis 6ft 5ins

Fighters Clay/Ali fought who measured up to the Super-sized heavies of today in height and power.
George Foreman - 6ft 4in + power
Ron Lyle 6ft 31/12in + power
Earnie Shavers power
Mac Foster 6ft 4in + power
Cleveland Williams 6ft 4in + power
Buster Mathis 6ft 4in + power + skills
Alvin Lewis 6ft 3in
Joe Bugner 6ft 5in
Ernie Terrell 6ft 7in
Ken Norton 6ft 4in + power
Chuck Wepner 6ft 7in

It's funny how you try to prove your point by FABRICATING heights. Where do you have these figures from?

It's also funny because it turns out that the opponents that you list as "comparable to nowadays supersized heavies" have basically 1 thing in common: They are NOT comparable or Ali couldn't KO them.

So actually you proved that Clay would fare bad against modern heavies.

1. George Foreman 220lbs - Foreman gassed in the heat of the jungle. Fight is hardly comparable to nowadays
2. Ron Lyle 219lbs
3. Earnie Shavers 211lbs - No KOwin
4. Mac Foster 211lbs - No KOwin
5. Cleveland Williams 210lbs - Couldn't move leg after gunshot
6. Buster Mathis 256lbs - came after a loss and a near-3-year layoff
7. Alvin Lewis 223lbs
8. Joe Bugner 219lbs/230lbs - No KOwin
9. Ernie Terrell 212lbs - No KOwin
10. Ken Norton 205lbs - No KOwin, gift decision
11. Chuck Wepner - KDed Clay/Ali, wouldn't count as KOwin nowaddays

So your complete list consists of

• doubtful wins (Cleveland Williams, Mathis etc)
• no KOwins
• NOT SUPERSIZED opponents

In fact 5 of your listed oponents would be in the BOTTOM10 of Klitschko's lightest opponents.

In fact Clay's HEAVIEST KOWin (within 12) is Alvin Lewis (223lbs). That's not even the AVERAGE of Klitschko's KOwins. Actually Chris Byrd's average KOwin was against heavier opponents than Ali ever KOed.

Add to it that Clay was KDed by much lesser opponents than nowadays heavies you realize how difficult it would be for Clay.

Height & weigh are completely meaningless

Typical delusion of CLAYtons.

"Taller+Heavier" gives you already a 3:1 advantage. In other words you have to be 2-3 times better than your opponent if he out-sizes you.

[StarshipTrooper]

It's funny how you try to prove your point by FABRICATING heights. Where do you have these figures from?

It's also funny because it turns out that the opponents that you list as "comparable to nowadays supersized heavies" have basically 1 thing in common: They are NOT comparable or Ali couldn't KO them.

So basically you have proven the opposite of what you claimed: That Clay would not fare well against modern heavies.

1. George Foreman 220lbs - Foreman gassed in the heat of the jungle. Fight is hardly comparable to nowadays
2. Ron Lyle 219lbs
3. Earnie Shavers 211lbs - No KOwin
4. Mac Foster 211lbs - No KOwin
5. Cleveland Williams 210lbs - Couldn't move leg after gunshot
6. Buster Mathis 256lbs - came after a loss and a near-3-year layoff
7. Alvin Lewis 223lbs
8. Joe Bugner 219lbs/230lbs - No KOwin
9. Ernie Terrell 212lbs - No KOwin
10. Ken Norton 205lbs - No KOwin, gift decision
11. Chuck Wepner - KDed Clay/Ali, wouldn't count as KOwin nowaddays

So your complete list consists of

• doubtful wins (Cleveland Williams, Mathis etc)
• no KOwins
• NOT SUPERSIZED opponents

In fact 5 of your listed oponents would be in the BOTTOM10 of Klitschko's lightest opponents.

In fact Clay's HEAVIEST KOWin (within 12) is Alvin Lewis (223lbs). That's not even the AVERAGE of Klitschko's KOwins. Actually Chris Byrd's average KOwin was against heavier opponents than Ali ever KOed.

Add to it that Clay was KDed by much lesser opponents than nowadays heavies you realize how difficult it would be for Clay.


Typical delusion of CLAYtons.

"Taller+Heavier" gives you already a 3:1 advantage. In other words you have to be 2-3 times better than your opponent if he out-sizes you.

I've seen a LOT of ******ed posters on Boxing Scene but YOU, Sir, are so ******ed even "special" people are embarrassed by you :jerk0ff9:

Poet

[knn]

I've seen a LOT of ******ed posters on Boxing Scene but YOU, Sir, are so ******ed even "special" people are embarrassed by you :jerk0ff9:

Pinky as Pinky can: No counter-facts, just insults.

Thank you for providing me a new quote for my anti-CLAYton website.

[StarshipTrooper]

Pinky as Pinky can: No counter-facts, just insults.

Thank you for providing me a new quote for my anti-CLAYton website.

You have to actually PROVIDE facts in the first place to have counter-facts. You don't provide facts: Only mindless assertions that can be gratuitously denied. Lots of people here have gone round and round with you and it's pretty obvious your line of reasoning is bogus. Your the poster boy for biased reasoning: You form a conclusion first (developed from your bias) then try and fit the "facts" (which in your case aren't facts but mindless assertions) to support the conclusion you've already come to even if you have to twist said "facts" or insert irrelivencies to bolster your dubious claims. Logic doesn't work like that: With proper logic your draw your conclusion from established fact NOT draw your "facts" from your established conclusion. For someone who liked to throw numbers around you're pretty lacking in education.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my 9,500th post :grin9:

Poet