Muhammad Ali vs The Supersized Heavyweights

[Vadrigar.]

"How many half-blind boxers did you interview? And did you just insult me because you lost the argument?" - Frazier wasn't half blind

[boxing boy]

In 1975 Muhammad Ali danced for 15 rounds in 100 degree heat against 6'5" 230lb Joe Bugner,and won 13 out of 15 rounds.Bugner was a very good young(25 years old) boxer,whom the Klitschko brothers would have there hands full with.

Remember,this was after Ali's 3 1/2 year lay-off,and he was 8 years past his prime! But he had as little trouble with the 6'5" Bugner as he did in his prime against 6'6" Ernie Terrell,winning all 15 rounds.

This fight with Bugner was the fight before the Trilla' in Manilla' with the great Smokin' Joe Frazier.

[Jim Jeffries]

In 1975 Muhammad Ali danced for 15 rounds in 100 degree heat against 6'5" 230lb Joe Bugner,and won 13 out of 15 rounds.Bugner was a very good young(25 years old) boxer,whom the Klitschko brothers would have there hands full with.

Remember,this was after Ali's 3 1/2 year lay-off,and he was 8 years past his prime! But he had as little trouble with the 6'5" Bugner as he did in his prime against 6'6" Ernie Terrell,winning all 15 rounds.

This fight with Bugner was the fight before the Trilla' in Manilla' with the great Smokin' Joe Frazier.

A couple of problems here. The Bugner fight was a 12 rounder, which Ali won by 3 points. You're claiming Ali was 8 years past his prime, but he was only 31. I thought we're talking about Ali, not Tyson.

Personally I think Ali has his hands full against Lennox and Wladimir, winning decisions against both, but nothing like the shutouts most are predicting. Vitali would be an easier fight for him and I believe Ali stops him on cuts.

[boxing boy]

A couple of problems here. The Bugner fight was a 12 rounder, which Ali won by 3 points. You're claiming Ali was 8 years past his prime, but he was only 31. I thought we're talking about Ali, not Tyson.

Personally I think Ali has his hands full against Lennox and Wladimir, winning decisions against both, but nothing like the shutouts most are predicting. Vitali would be an easier fight for him and I believe Ali stops him on cuts.

NO the Bugner fight was a 15 rounder in 1975 when Ali defended his title against Bugner.The 12 rounder was back in 1973 my friend.

In 1973 Ali was 6 years past his prime,and in 1975 he was 8 years past his prime.Why? Because his prime was in 1966/67 before his 3 1/2 year lay-off.

[boxing boy]

Where's the fact? It's your personal opinion about Ali's prime.


Again no facts.


I can imagine a lot of things. Especially that 1967 was NOT Ali's prime. Actually you have no proof when Ali's prime was. Of course he got worse and worse in the 70ies, but that's because he was more and more an OVERWEIGHT.


Yeah so? Why does Liston always pop up?


Again, pure speculation.


But you see: You are doing some self-referencing mind melt here: You find excuses for performances ("He wasn't in his prime anymore") and upvaluing his opponents ("He wasn't in his prime yet").

I could claim the direct opposite: Clay was in his prime when he won Olympic Gold and it was going downhill ever since but the opponents of the 70ies ****** so much that Clay had an easy game. You see it works both ways: Just like you used some "Prime"-argument for UPVALUING Ali's wins and DOWNVALUING Ali's bad performances I can use it the other way around.

Moreover I could claim that Foreman was not in his prime yet and that's the reason why he lost to Ali. And that Liston was past his prime. And now what?

That's why I never argue with some "Prime"-nonsense: Because it's based on opinion and not facts. It's actually a "killer excuse" especially used by Tyson-fans ("Oh, Tyson was past his prime") to explain everything away.


How many half-blind boxers did you interview? And did you just insult me because you lost the argument?


Yeah so? CLAYtons never mention how easily Frazier was dismantled by Foreman. THAT is a comparison by FACTS: Ali needed 41 rounds against Frazier (only to be KDed and UDed) while Foreman KDed and KOed Frazier several times easily within 7 rounds.

Everybody(boxers,trainers,boxing writers,boxing fans) knows that after his 3 1/2 year lay-off Ali was past his prime.It's not just my personal opinion.Your really not this dumb are you?

You are a moron stating 1967 was not Ali's prime.Your more of an idiot than a thought.

You go on and on make really ****** comparisons about Ali's prime and what you or others could say the prime of other fighters are,and what you could say Ali's prime is etc. etc. You really do not know much about Muhammad Ali and boxing do you? Wow,your more wacked out than I thought.

Can't you really see for yourself the difference in Muhammad Ali before and after his 3 1/2 year lay-off? Are you saying his 3 1/2 year lay-off is not a fact?

After you state how Foreman easily destroyed Frazier,and Muhammad Ali could not in 41 rounds really shows your ignorance of the sport.Muhammad Ali KO'd the guy(Foreman) who KO'd Frazier! Boy are you making yourself look ******.

I do not know what is more funny,Frazier saying he was half blind against Muhammad Ali or saying he won ALL 12 rounds in his 2nd fight against Ali,Lol

This post of yours shows me how incompetent you really are about Muhammad Ali,George Foreman,Sonny Liston,Joe Frazier,and boxing.Boy,your so far out in left field that it is not funny.

[boxing boy]

knn...Excuse man.

In 1968 there was a Big fight between 5'11" 204lb Joe Frazier and "undefeated" 6'4" 244lb Buster Mathias.Mathias had very good boxing skills and could move and dance around the ring on his toes like a middleweight.

Buster won the early rounds moving and dancing,and hitting Frazier with his left jab and combinations.Frazier started Smoking in the middle rounds,and made it an even fight,before brutally knocking out Mathias in the 11th round.

Mathias was never the same after this fight from the battering he took,and being brutally knocked out.

I suggest you watch this fight to see how a short 5'11" and small 204lbs fighter can beat a "good" Big fighter giving away 5 inches and 40 lbs!

Buster Mathias was also a great amatuer fighter winning the olympic trials,and would have won the olympic Gold medal if not for suffering an injury.Ironically,Joe Frazier took his place and won Gold.Mathias beat Frazier in the olympic trials.

[knn]

Everybody(boxers,trainers,boxing writers,boxing fans) knows that after his 3 1/2 year lay-off Ali was past his prime.It's not just my personal opinion.Your really not this dumb are you?

Insults, insults, insults. And "everybody knows". Typical CLAYton behaviour.

You are a moron stating 1967 was not Ali's prime.Your more of an idiot than a thought.

More insults.

You go on and on make really ****** comparisons about Ali's prime and what you or others could say the prime of other fighters are,and what you could say Ali's prime is etc. etc. You really do not know much about Muhammad Ali and boxing do you? Wow,your more wacked out than I thought.

More insults. Your posts are getting worse and worse.

Can't you really see for yourself the difference in Muhammad Ali before and after his 3 1/2 year lay-off? Are you saying his 3 1/2 year lay-off is not a fact?

The lay-off is a fact, spared him some beating and gave him a few years more without Parkinson.

After you state how Foreman easily destroyed Frazier,and Muhammad Ali could not in 41 rounds really shows your ignorance of the sport.Muhammad Ali KO'd the guy(Foreman) who KO'd Frazier!

Because 5 fights are more conclusive than 2. Add to it that a fight in the rain forest is hardly a good example and you will realize what a bad performance Ali showed against Frazier. Moreover you expose yourself when you state this "A beat B beat C"-nonsense.

Boy are you making yourself look ******.

And more insults.

I do not know what is more funny,Frazier saying he was half blind against Muhammad Ali or saying he won ALL 12 rounds in his 2nd fight against Ali,Lol

Whether he was blind (or not) is a _FACT_. Whether he won is FRAZIER's OPINION. Frazier's opinion is IRRELEVANT. Just like Ali's OPINION about how hard Shavers hit is IRRELEVANT.

This post of yours shows me how incompetent you really are about Muhammad Ali,George Foreman,Sonny Liston,Joe Frazier,and boxing.Boy,your so far out in left field that it is not funny.

And more insults.

[knn]

In 1968 there was a Big fight between 5'11" 204lb Joe Frazier and "undefeated" 6'4" 244lb Buster Mathias.Mathias had very good boxing skills and could move and dance around the ring on his toes like a middleweight.

Buster won the early rounds moving and dancing,and hitting Frazier with his left jab and combinations.Frazier started Smoking in the middle rounds,and made it an even fight,before brutally knocking out Mathias in the 11th round.

Mathias was never the same after this fight from the battering he took,and being brutally knocked out.

I suggest you watch this fight to see how a short 5'11" and small 204lbs fighter can beat a "good" Big fighter giving away 5 inches and 40 lbs!

Buster Mathias was also a great amatuer fighter winning the olympic trials,and would have won the olympic Gold medal if not for suffering an injury.Ironically,Joe Frazier took his place and won Gold.Mathias beat Frazier in the olympic trials.

Who the heck is Mathias?

Oh you mean Mathis?

Funny, after you don't even get his name straight you fabricate his height. I already exposed the thread starter as a height manipulator and now you do the same. He was 6'3'' and not 6'4''.

It was not a 40 lbs difference and not a 5 inch difference.

The only way how CLAYtons can argue is with manipulated stats and insults.

And do you try to prove that a smaller fighter can win against a taller fighter? Spare us the obvious.

AND NO WONDER Frazier could KO him in the 11th round: It was the first time that Buster went more than 10 rounds and already the 10-rounder of Buster was merely a split decision against bum Stallings (31-32).

[Calilloyd]

A couple of problems here. The Bugner fight was a 12 rounder, which Ali won by 3 points. You're claiming Ali was 8 years past his prime, but he was only 31. I thought we're talking about Ali, not Tyson.

Personally I think Ali has his hands full against Lennox and Wladimir, winning decisions against both, but nothing like the shutouts most are predicting. Vitali would be an easier fight for him and I believe Ali stops him on cuts.

You need to study up. Ali beat Bugner by 15 round decison prior to fighting Frazier in Manila. It was a tune up and it wasn't close.. And Ali was not in his prime for either Bugner fight. The first fight Ali won by scores of 7-4-1,7-4-1, and 8-3-1 if you go by rounds.

[boxing boy]

knn...Excuse man.

I'm going to start over with you and ask just one question at a time,since you avoid questions and facts that tear down your deluded knowledge of boxing.

What fights of Sonny Liston did you watch?

A simple question.I will ask another question next time,since you seem to need to be fed like a baby.One question at a time.