Bert Sugar ''Willie Pep Is A Greater Fighter Than Muhammad Ali''

[bojangles1987]

I agree with this, but Ali is top 15, 20 at least.

I know I personally have him so high because of his raw ability and unbelievable will to win. In the best era of heavyweights ever, he beat EVERYONE. I just think that his ability combined with his heart and will, there aren't 5 fighters better all time.

[JAB5239]

I know I personally have him so high because of his raw ability and unbelievable will to win. In the best era of heavyweights ever, he beat EVERYONE. I just think that his ability combined with his heart and will, there aren't 5 fighters better all time.

Ali was GREAT, I would never try to take that away from him. And I respect your opinion, but find it a bit absurd that many people can't even conceive it being argued against. There have been so many great fighters in history that it is a disservice to the sport to just speculate Ali was greater because we know so much about him. Believe me, I'm in no way trying to put him down.

[gimmeyapudpud]

Im going to humor you on both Diekmann and Daniels, both of who he had wins over. Could it be that a 19 year old fighter with no amateur career that I know of could get beat early in his career? If so, should that really be held against him? Should a loss against a vastly more experienced fighter be held against that same fighter with no amateur career to speak of be held against a 23 year old fighter? If you say yes to either of these questions it only proves how biased you are. Grow up, do some research and beg for some green.

Louis was hardly green and inexperienced against Daniels,gabby.In fact,he had apparently beaten him once already.



I don't see why his loss against Gipsy Daniels shouldn't count.


You do make a decent point about his very first loss,but nothing more than a decent point.

no no no its ko ratio vs ko ratio when quality of opposition is similar.

You're comparing a puncher to a non-puncher,which is a ****** argument to be made in the first place.



Qaulity of opposition isn't similar,Ali quite simply fought in a greater era where heavyweights actually fought with a working pulse.


If you define a fighters greatness by their knockout ratio then carry on.You're ****** and wrong to do so,but carry on otherwise

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Louis was hardly green and inexperienced against Daniels,gabby.In fact,he had apparently beaten him once already.



I don't see why his loss against Gipsy Daniels shouldn't count.


You do make a decent point about his very first loss,but nothing more than a decent point.

I never said he was Green and inexperienced, only that he was young and fighting someone with much more professional experience. I don't discount it, but I do hold it in the same regard as something along the lines of Bernard Hopkins losing his first pro fight or drawing with Mercado. It simply doesn't tell the whole story of him as a fighter. Can we agree on that?

[TheGreatA]

I've heard that Schmeling drained himself to make weight against Gipsy Daniels and thus fought as a heavyweight from that point onwards. It's comparable to Pacquiao's early losses in my opinion.

[Rolling Stone]

Still waiting. I know you can do better than this. Can't you?

HAHAHHA....you mean to tell me McLarnin is greater than Archie Moore??? you asked to name a fighter Ali fought greater than McLarnin and i gave you 1????

oh wait, you disagree??? you think McLarnin is greater than Moore???? oh dear you really are retarted

[JAB5239]

HAHAHHA....you mean to tell me McLarnin is greater than Archie Moore??? you asked to name a fighter Ali fought greater than McLarnin and i gave you 1????

Let me rephrase the question so you can understand it a little better. Who, at the time Ali fought them, was a better fighter than McLarnin or Canzoneri at the time Ross fought them? Hint. it certainly wasn't an ancient Archie Moore.

oh wait, you disagree??? you think McLarnin is greater than Moore???? oh dear you really are retarted

Im retarted? What the hell is retarted? Lol! Oh, you must mean ******ed. R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D. You're welcome for both the spelling lesson and historical boxing lessons.

[Rolling Stone]

Im retarted? What the hell is retarted? Lol! Oh, you must mean ******ed. R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D. You're welcome for both the spelling lesson and historical boxing lessons.

HAHHAHHA........OWNED....you are not smart enough to retort so you resort to correcting my 'typing error'.....pathetic.....im done with your ass





















































































































































































































































embarrassed?

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Im retarted? What the hell is retarted? Lol! Oh, you must mean ******ed. R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D. You're welcome for both the spelling lesson and historical boxing lessons.

HAHHAHHA........OWNED....you are not smart enough to retort so you resort to correcting my 'typing error'.....pathetic.....im done with your ass

Typing error, huh? Heh, heh, heh!

So are you going to answer the question or not? Lets stop flaming and get down to some serious boxing talk.

Let me rephrase the question so you can understand it a little better. Who, at the time Ali fought them, was a better fighter than McLarnin or Canzoneri at the time Ross fought them? Hint. it certainly wasn't an ancient Archie Moore.

[Jim Jeffries]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;7619567]

Typing error, huh? Heh, heh, heh!

So are you going to answer the question or not? Lets stop flaming and get down to some serious boxing talk.

Let me rephrase the question so you can understand it a little better. Who, at the time Ali fought them, was a better fighter than McLarnin or Canzoneri at the time Ross fought them? Hint. it certainly wasn't an ancient Archie Moore.

Is this guy really arguing that a 46 year old (possibly older) Moore with 218 pro fights (at least) was a great win?:thinking1:


Decent test for a young Ali, but great win?