How does Joe Louis do against these fighters?

[EzzardFan]

I haven't watched all of Louis' fights, but from the fights that I have seen, it's apparent that he's never fought anybody on Mike's level, aside from Marciano (who was shy of Mike's talent).

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=354155

Joe Louis beat 8 hall of fame opponents. I'n guessing that he fought even more... (???)

Tyson's record doesn't stack up next to that. I'm trying to think of one quality opponent that he beat. He fought in one of the weaker periods of the heavyweight division. That's why he cleaned up. I'm not saying he wasn't good, but I'd have like to see him face up to other hall of fame fighters other than an over-the-hill Larry Holmes.

Marcino may have lacked Tyson's skill, but he could take a punch better than Tyson, and quite possibly hit harder. He wouldn't have frozen in front of Tyson, and personally I suspect that Rocky would have beaten Tyson.

Mike was the most dangerous kind of fighter - an ultra evasive, quick handed combo puncher with tons of power in both hands that knew how to get inside and "open up like a son of a *****" and on top of being the most dangerous type, he was the most skilled at being the type of fighter he was, not to mention a great chin and the ability to go 10 rounds with guys that weighed 30 lb's more than he.

I don't dispute any of this. But it was much easier to get inside those guys than to get inside Joe Louis.

I'm not saying Louis wasn't great, but boxing changed a lot from the time Louis fought to when Mike was fighting, and I just don't see how judging from the style of these guys and watching them on film, anybody could believe that Louis could beat Tyson. I just don't see it happening.

Boxing is much poorer now compared to when Louis reigned, it's been in decline since the 1970s. Just look at today's heavyweights. They make Willard, Carnera, and Marvin Hart look competent.

I feel like Tyson in his prime was in a league all his own - a phenom that the world had never seen anything close to.

THe same has been said about many fighters but history hasn't always been kind to them. Think Max Baer.

I just don't know that Louis, as quick and accurate as he was, would have the ability to hit Mike enough to hurt him, and I doubt that Louis would be able to dodge or take Mike's punches for more than 6 rounds.

Unless there is something on film that we can see that shows otherwise.

Louis was a harder puncher than anyone that Tyson ever faced. He was one of the most intelligent and skilful boxers ever to grace the ring. Some believe that he was the greatest ever. I believe that Louis would have beat Tyson. But I do rank Tyson in my top ten heavyweights.

[sonnyboyx2]

Like I said there is no logic to a ten fight scenario but it certainly helps me in my mind rate a match up. With these fantasy fights there is not fantastic logic behind many of them to be honest given difference in eras and some of the more ludicrous p4p match ups I see such as Pac v Ali etc.

Happy to name a couple of times it has happened in history though, Langford v Wills or McVea off the top of my head and probably a fair few permatations of those guys if you throw in Jeanette too. Probably a fair few others too.
Its still all very hypothetical as Langford and Wills had a fair few years between them so you could say the dozen odd fights they had probably still didn't establish who was the better man given the difference in primes.

well it was obvious that you was gonna claim Langford, Jeanette, McVea etc fought each other 10 times.. but with you being such an expert on these 10 fight scenarios maybe you can tell me who wins these 10 fight series:

Ali v Foreman
Ray Leonard vs Dave`boy`Green
Tyson vs Spinks
Tyson vs Carl Williams
Pacquiao vs Hatton

[sonnyboyx2]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=354155

Joe Louis beat 8 hall of fame opponents. I'n guessing that he fought even more... (???)

Tyson's record doesn't stack up next to that. I'm trying to think of one quality opponent that he beat. He fought in one of the weaker periods of the heavyweight division. That's why he cleaned up. I'm not saying he wasn't good, but I'd have like to see him face up to other hall of fame fighters other than an over-the-hill Larry Holmes.

Marcino may have lacked Tyson's skill, but he could take a punch better than Tyson, and quite possibly hit harder. He wouldn't have frozen in front of Tyson, and personally I suspect that Rocky would have beaten Tyson.



I don't dispute any of this. But it was much easier to get inside those guys than to get inside Joe Louis.



Boxing is much poorer now compared to when Louis reigned, it's been in decline since the 1970s. Just look at today's heavyweights. They make Willard, Carnera, and Marvin Hart look competent.



THe same has been said about many fighters but history hasn't always been kind to them. Think Max Baer.



Louis was a harder puncher than anyone that Tyson ever faced. He was one of the most intelligent and skilful boxers ever to grace the ring. Some believe that he was the greatest ever. I believe that Louis would have beat Tyson. But I do rank Tyson in my top ten heavyweights.

your having a laugh here with your perseption of Mike Tyson surely: you say`- " I'm trying to think of one quality opponent that he beat... well let me answer that for you, Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs, Holmes, Seldon, Spinks, Bruno & Botha all fought their way to hold versions of the Heavyweight title... "thats 10 title holders" - Tyson also defeated undefeated Olympic champion Tyrell Biggs, top contenders Carl Williams, Golota, Savarese & Ruddock (twice)... so your ridiculous comment of trying to think of one quality opponent Tyson beat is laughable.. let me ask you to name me one quality opponent these fighters beat:

L.Lewis
Wlad Klitschko
V.Klitschko
L.Holmes

[mickey malone]

your having a laugh here with your perseption of Mike Tyson surely: you say`- " I'm trying to think of one quality opponent that he beat... well let me answer that for you, Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs, Holmes, Seldon, Spinks, Bruno & Botha all fought their way to hold versions of the Heavyweight title... "thats 10 title holders" - Tyson also defeated undefeated Olympic champion Tyrell Biggs, top contenders Carl Williams, Golota, Savarese & Ruddock (twice)... so your ridiculous comment of trying to think of one quality opponent Tyson beat is laughable.. let me ask you to name me one quality opponent these fighters beat:

L.Lewis
Wlad Klitschko
V.Klitschko
L.Holmes

[sonnyboyx2]

your having a laugh here with your perseption of Mike Tyson surely: you say`- " I'm trying to think of one quality opponent that he beat... well let me answer that for you, Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs, Holmes, Seldon, Spinks, Bruno & Botha all fought their way to hold versions of the Heavyweight title... "thats 10 title holders" - Tyson also defeated undefeated Olympic champion Tyrell Biggs, top contenders Carl Williams, Golota, Savarese & Ruddock (twice)... so your ridiculous comment of trying to think of one quality opponent Tyson beat is laughable.. let me ask you to name me one quality opponent these fighters beat:

L.Lewis
Wlad Klitschko
V.Klitschko
L.Holmes

Spinks licked Holmes (twice)
Holmes was fortunate to beat Smith
Holmes avoided Thomas
Lewis very fortunate to beat Bruno
Tucker was a junkie when Lewis beat him

[mickey malone]

Spinks licked Holmes (twice)
Holmes was fortunate to beat Smith
Holmes avoided Thomas
Lewis very fortunate to beat Bruno
Tucker was a junkie when Lewis beat him

Holmes was old
Smith looked like he'd been hit with a baseball bat
True, Holmes did avoid Thomas
Lewis's plan was to let Bruno punch himself out
A lesser version of the one who faced Tyson, but not a full-blown junkie

I was just pointing out that your question kind'a contradicts itself..

[sonnyboyx2]

Holmes was old
Smith looked like he'd been hit with a baseball bat
True, Holmes did avoid Thomas
Lewis's plan was to let Bruno punch himself out
A lesser version of the one who faced Tyson, but not a full-blown junkie

I was just pointing out that your question kind'a contradicts itself..

Lewis's plan was to let Bruno punch himself out ?

[mickey malone]

Lewis's plan was to let Bruno punch himself out ?

Indeed it was.. He'd been heavily influenced by watching tapes of Bruno's earlier defeats to Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon where he gassed in the later rounds, and had said as much leading up to the fight.. But, Frank had other ideas, and it didn't quite go to plan in the first half of the fight, as Lewis absorbed a fair bit of punishment, but then, what do you expect?.. Both Smith and Witherspoon spent the night in hospital after defeating Bruno..

[sonnyboyx2]

Indeed it was.. He'd been heavily influenced by watching tapes of Bruno's earlier defeats to Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon where he gassed in the later rounds, and had said as much leading up to the fight.. But, Frank had other ideas, and it didn't quite go to plan in the first half of the fight, as Lewis absorbed a fair bit of punishment, but then, what do you expect?.. Both Smith and Witherspoon spent the night in hospital after defeating Bruno..

Lewis was beaten to the jab, beaten at every aspect of the game by Bruno and was on the verge of the referee jumping in to rescue him when in desperation he lashed out with a left-hook while looking at the floor and caught Bruno on the chin... that IMO was not letting a guy punch himself out

[mickey malone]

Lewis was beaten to the jab, beaten at every aspect of the game by Bruno and was on the verge of the referee jumping in to rescue him when in desperation he lashed out with a left-hook while looking at the floor and caught Bruno on the chin... that IMO was not letting a guy punch himself out

True, but Bruno didn't go down.. He adopted his newly learned technique of holding on for dear life.. He never did get the hang of ducking, so this was his only ploy.. But unfortunately he was too gassed to see it through..
Sure, Bruno was slightly ahead when the fight was stopped, but Lewis had taken a lot of those shots on his arms, and was beginning to take control.. I don't think it was left hook thrown in desperation, more like a perfectly timed left hand counter, and although out-boxed for most of the fight, Lewis proved he could take punishment and out-last Bruno, which is exactly what he did..