If Cus Damato Lived And Continued To Train Tyson

[JAB5239]

BennyST is FAR from being a newbie. In fact he's one of our best posters in the Boxing History section.

Poet

Co-sign. I've come to respect many of your posts Sonny, but you're off base here. Agree or disagree, Benny got great knowledge of the sport and is one of this sites biggest assets.

I've seen a lot of posts in this thread for and against, but its a matter of interpretation. I'll sit this one out and let you guys argue because I can find an argument that goes in either direction depending on my mood.

Gotta give my man Benny credit though, he's a proven fountain of information that I can at least say I've learned much from.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Unfortunately, Tyson didn't have the character to carry on what Cus taught him when it comes to thinking things out and associating with the right people. He couldn't do it alone but he could have done it with Cus. Maybe if cus would have stuck around another ten years, Tyson could have carried on without him. The crazy Tyson we know from after prison was created by the problems he created for himself before prison. Tyson was only 21 when he started making bad decisions, he was just a kid. Why people don't understand that, is beyond me. If Tyson would have continued with Cus, there's no doubt he would have beat Lewis and Holyfield early on. He was on the path to becoming the greatest heavyweight ever or you could say the potential was there. Its the post prison Mike that has instilled hate in a lot of people for him. Thats why he will continue to be underrated until this generation has passed. Boxing experts 50 years from now will put Tyson up there second to Ali where he belongs.

[Benny Leonard]

Cus D'Amato:On how Mike gave him reason to live:“I often say to Mike, “You know, I owe you a lot,” and he doesn’t know what I mean….If he weren’t here, I probably wouldn’t be alive today….Nature is smarter than people think. Little by little we lose our friends that we care about and little by little we lose our interest until finally we say what the devil am I doing around here if I have no reason to go on? You get used to everything. Even the idea of dying is something a person gets used too, and he accepts it. I believe that people die because they no longer want to live, they have no motivation to stay alive. But I have a reason with Mike here, and he gives me the motivation. I will stay alive and I will watch him become a success, because I will not leave until that happens, because when I leave he not only will know how to fight, he’ll be able to take care of himself. I don’t succeed when I make a guy become Champion of the World. I succeed when I make that fellow become Champion of the World and independent of me…”

[BOX-A-LOT]

Cus D'Amato:On how Mike gave him reason to live:“[COLOR="Blue"]I often say to Mike, “You know, I owe you a lot,” and he doesn’t know what I mean….If he weren’t here, I probably wouldn’t be alive today….Nature is smarter than people think. Little by little we lose our friends that we care about and little by little we lose our interest until finally we say what the devil am I doing around here if I have no reason to go on? You get used to everything. Even the idea of dying is something a person gets used too, and he accepts it. I believe that people die because they no longer want to live, they have no motivation to stay alive. But I have a reason with Mike here, and he gives me the motivation. [B]I will stay alive and I will watch him become a success, because I will not leave until that happens, because when I leave he not only will know how to fight, he’ll be able to take care of himself. I don’t succeed when I make a guy become Champion of the World. I succeed when I make that fellow become Champion of the World and independent of me…”

Wasn't Cus already on his deathbed or had passed away before Mike became champ?

Cus died and Tyson's life soon went into turmoil.

[Thread Stealer]

Wasn't Cus already on his deathbed or had passed away before Mike became champ?

Cus died and Tyson's life soon went into turmoil.

Cus died pretty early in Tyson's career, about a dozen or so fights in.

Tyson won the WBC belt from Berbick almost a year after Cus died.

[Benny Leonard]

Wasn't Cus already on his deathbed or had passed away before Mike became champ?

Cus died and Tyson's life soon went into turmoil.

Yes; Cus had died before Tyson became Champ.

What people say was keeping it together was Jimmy Jacobs being buddies with Tyson, and along with Rooney, keeping Cus's name continually in Tyson's mind to keep him on track on what they set out to do: Become the youngest HW Champion in history. This is probably also why you used to see T-shirts with Cus's picture on it while Tyson was fighting back then. And let's not forget Cayton's part in all this with keeping Tyson active and away from trouble. Rooney said in an interview that before D'Amato died, he sat down with Jacobs and Cayton and told them exactly what to do to make sure Tyson would keep on track. It did seem to work until at least Jacobs died and then other factors help derail him.
The Goal set by D'Amato seemed to keep the motivation running in Tyson just enough so that he could win the title and then go on to unify it to solidify his place in history. However, after he beat Spinks (and I posted up videos about it), Tyson started to talk about retirement...which in a way he basically did because he would fire Rooney and Cayton and then stop being the fighter that enabled him to unify the titles in the first place.


Good info in this video:

[sonnyboyx2]

Co-sign. I've come to respect many of your posts Sonny, but you're off base here. Agree or disagree, Benny got great knowledge of the sport and is one of this sites biggest assets.

I've seen a lot of posts in this thread for and against, but its a matter of interpretation. I'll sit this one out and let you guys argue because I can find an argument that goes in either direction depending on my mood.

Gotta give my man Benny credit though, he's a proven fountain of information that I can at least say I've learned much from.

So i take it you agree with his comment that Hasim Rahman was better than Buster Douglas when Douglas beat Tyson?

i look forward to your reply

[JAB5239]

So i take it you agree with his comment that Hasim Rahman was better than Buster Douglas when Douglas beat Tyson?

i look forward to your reply

I think Douglas was more talented than Rahman, but he was also a classic underachiever who besides that one night never lived up to his potential.

And whether I agree or disagree with Benny, nothing changes the fact that he is a very knowledgeable poster. As I said, much of this is how we individually interpret it.

[mickey malone]

Strange fighter was Buster Douglas.. Winning against the best version of Tony Tucker before gassing late, and getting stopped.. Then he comes back and wins the undisputed title by beating Tyson, but within months, he's out of shape and surrenders it meakly to Evander Holyfield, without putting up a fight..
As pointed out by Jab, Douglas is the more talented, but Vs Rahman, would be a 50/50 affair.. All either of them are really noted for, is KOing one ATG a piece.. And Yes, like it or not, both Tyson and Lewis are ATG's..
As for rating them, I'd put Buster ahead of Rahman, but not by that far..
It's only his win over McCall, that just about edges it for me..
Rahman gets a lot of stick on these forums, which I feel he doesn't deserve..
Although limited with skills, he was consistently active, and always fought with good heart, in good company and to the best of his abilities.. In contrast, I'd say that Douglas didn't really..
It's sad, in a way.. Rahman tried his heart out, but didn't quite have it, where as Buster had it, but only tried when the mood took him.. I believe, had it not been for the death of his Mother, just b4 facing Mike, he'd have got KTFO, the same way as he did against Holyfied...

[JAB5239]

Strange fighter was Buster Douglas.. Winning against the best version of Tony Tucker before gassing late, and getting stopped.. Then he comes back and wins the undisputed title by beating Tyson, but within months, he's out of shape and surrenders it meakly to Evander Holyfield, without putting up a fight..
As pointed out by Jab, Douglas is the more talented, but Vs Rahman, would be a 50/50 affair.. All either of them are really noted for, is KOing one ATG a piece.. And Yes, like it or not, both Tyson and Lewis are ATG's..
As for rating them, I'd put Buster ahead of Rahman, but not by that far..
It's only his win over McCall, that just about edges it for me..
Rahman gets a lot of stick on these forums, which I feel he doesn't deserve..
Although limited with skills, he was consistently active, and always fought with good heart, in good company and to the best of his abilities.. In contrast, I'd say that Douglas didn't really..
It's sad, in a way.. Rahman tried his heart out, but didn't quite have it, where as Buster had it, but only tried when the mood took him.. I believe, had it not been for the death of his Mother, just b4 facing Mike, he'd have got KTFO, the same way as he did against Holyfied...

I agree with almost all of this. And while I haven't tried to calculate who I think ranks higher between them, I would like to say that the McCall win for Douglas and the two Tua fights for Rahman make it very close. Either fight could have gone Rahmans way had he not been hit after the bell in the first fight or was given the knockdown in the second fight. Jmo, of course.