If Cus Damato Lived And Continued To Train Tyson

[Boogie Nights]

Tyson would be in my opinion, a step up in class from say Willard, Gibbons & Tunney.. I think Dempsey would be able to fight on equal terms during the early rounds, and he'd also be tough enough to hang in there and take more shots than most of his other victims.. Late stoppage, ie 8th onwards, cuts, or taking unnecessary punishment, would be my prediction.. Tyson may have lost power through the rounds, but I'd be confident he'd still be a stronger proposition than those already mentioned..

Most people harp on about Dempsey's raw aggression and power, but he also had a granite chin.. I believe he was only ever KO'd once, in a dubious encounter with Fireman Jimmy Flynn.. Many at the time, said Dempsey had been handed a 'brown envelope' after the fight... Wouldn't surprise me!

Dempsey been down over 17 times in his career.

Jack would be too small for tyson. and i dont want anybody giving me the whole 'willard and firpo were big for depsey too, and look what happened' bs speech.

dempsey was a warrior, there's no question. they had similar fighting styles, but this is where the size difference will show. it's simple as that.

[Boogie Nights]

Some good posts on this. I think Douglas would have given any HW in history problems that night to be honest.

o no, you cant say that. Buster was just a bum. and tyson is a bum for loosing to a bum.

you're one of the few who actually looks throught the bull****. if only those other ****heads would smarten up for at least one kodak moment in their pathetic internet lives.

[mickey malone]

Dempsey been down over 17 times in his career.

Jack would be too small for tyson. and i dont want anybody giving me the whole 'willard and firpo were big for depsey too, and look what happened' bs speech.

dempsey was a warrior, there's no question. they had similar fighting styles, but this is where the size difference will show. it's simple as that.

Absolutely! Jack don't even make my top 10.. Maybe I'm wrong on the prediction, and Tyson stops him earlier.. It's only fantasy **** anyway lol

[Boogie Nights]

Absolutely! Jack don't even make my top 10.. Maybe I'm wrong on the prediction, and Tyson stops him earlier.. It's only fantasy **** anyway lol

yeah, fantasy indeed. but all factors considered dont seem to favor dempsey. like i said, i love Jack, but i wouldnt bet my money to toss a 180 pounder in the ring with 220pound mass running straight ahead from the gate. i really dont like bringing size into discussion, although most times it seems like a convinient way to place things into prespective.

Size is not everything but there are limits. There are people out there that actually try to make a case that Marciano has a shot against Lennox Lewis along with other countless examples. i dont even bother going into those kind of threads.

[mickey malone]

yeah, fantasy indeed. but all factors considered dont seem to favor dempsey. like i said, i love Jack, but i wouldnt bet my money to toss a 180 pounder in the ring with 220pound mass running straight ahead from the gate. i really dont like bringing size into discussion, although most times it seems like a convinient way to place things into prespective.

Size is not everything but there are limits. There are people out there that actually try to make a case that Marciano has a shot against Lennox Lewis along with other countless examples. i dont even bother going into those kind of threads.

I did a thread on this very subject, not so long ago now.. And concensus of history did infact favour the smaller man.. In other words, more examples of little guys beating big guys were thrown forward than there were of big guys demolishing the smaller ones..

Dempsey Willard
Baer Carnera
Louis Carnera
Spinks Holmes
Spinks Cooney
Jones Ruiz
Chagaev Valuev
Walcott Choynski
Corbett Sullivan

These are just the ones off the top of my head, but there's quite a few more..
It's my belief to, that times they are changing, and the new breed of monster HW would more than likely be too much for most of the old school HW's..
However, it's pretty darn hard to prove it when you consider the evidence above.. This unfortunately fuels the fires of the posters you're referring to.. Frustrating, isn't it?

[Boogie Nights]

I did a thread on this very subject, not so long ago now.. And concensus of history did infact favour the smaller man.. In other words, more examples of little guys beating big guys were thrown forward than there were of big guys demolishing the smaller ones..

Dempsey Willard
Baer Carnera
Louis Carnera
Spinks Holmes
Spinks Cooney
Jones Ruiz
Chagaev Valuev
Walcott Choynski
Corbett Sullivan

These are just the ones off the top of my head, but there's quite a few more..
It's my belief to, that times they are changing, and the new breed of monster HW would more than likely be too much for most of the old school HW's..
However, it's pretty darn hard to prove it when you consider the evidence above.. This unfortunately fuels the fires of the posters you're referring to.. Frustrating, isn't it?

it's not frustrating at all, and there's nothing to prove really. The fact of the matter is that, the guys mentioned above, Willard, Carnera, Ruiz, etcs etcs are not even close to being in the same league with Lewis, Bowe, Klitschko. Even guys like Tim Witherspoon, Mike Dokes, and all them other cats had tremendous power and strength that would be too much for some smaller heavys. People that usually say size dont matter, have never boxed themselves. They dont know what it feels like getting hit by a featherweight, much less a heavy.

some of the examples you posted can be picked apart in a flash. Dempsey beat Willard a guy whom Nat Fleitcher called one of the worst title holders ever (and Fleicher usually supported fighters in his era).

Spinks questionably beat Holmes (an old holmes who never was an imposing heavyweight to begin with), and he beat cooney who had like 1 fight in 4 years, cooney who was fighting off depression and going to AA meetings on weekends. And then when we saw spinks take on tyson we all know what happened.

Yeah Roy beat ruiz (i guess ruiz was something special wasnt he?) he also lost to toney. We all know what would have happened if roy fought Lewis, he didnt take the fight because he knew what we knew, he'd get ktfo.

i can go on and on, but there's really nothing to explain here.

[mickey malone]

it's not frustrating at all, and there's nothing to prove really. The fact of the matter is that, the guys mentioned above, Willard, Carnera, Ruiz, etcs etcs are not even close to being in the same league with Lewis, Bowe, Klitschko. Even guys like Tim Witherspoon, Mike Dokes, and all them other cats had tremendous power and strength that would be too much for some smaller heavys. People that usually say size dont matter, have never boxed themselves. They dont know what it feels like getting hit by a featherweight, much less a heavy.

some of the examples you posted can be picked apart in a flash. Dempsey beat Willard a guy whom Nat Fleitcher called one of the worst title holders ever (and Fleicher usually supported fighters in his era).

Spinks questionably beat Holmes (an old holmes who never was an imposing heavyweight to begin with), and he beat cooney who had like 1 fight in 4 years, cooney who was fighting off depression and going to AA meetings on weekends. And then when we saw spinks take on tyson we all know what happened.

Yeah Roy beat ruiz (i guess ruiz was something special wasnt he?) he also lost to toney. We all know what would have happened if roy fought Lewis, he didnt take the fight because he knew what we knew, he'd get ktfo.

i can go on and on, but there's really nothing to explain here.

There's nothing to prove in my eyes, but you've only got to post a thread saying Marciano would beat Lewis, and some of em will be sending you ribbons and GreenK..

[Boogie Nights]

There's nothing to prove in my eyes, but you've only got to post a thread saying Marciano would beat Lewis, and some of em will be sending you ribbons and GreenK..

althought my posts may tell a different story, id be the first to tell you how much i admire Marciano. im truly a fan of his, but i will not let my love for the guy dictate what i think of his capabilities. Rocky, just like any fighter had his flaws, and had he fought in the different era things might have been different for him, for better or worse we will never know. But he's made out to be someone unbeatable and unstoppable to the extreme, and the only leverage to that theory is: 49-0.

as the saying goes, show me an undefeated fighter and ill show you a guy who never fought anybody. and that is not to say that rocky fought bums, he fought whoever was available and his resume is solid. but i dont think he'd keep his undefeated string fighting more talented big men.

[mickey malone]

althought my posts may tell a different story, id be the first to tell you how much i admire Marciano. im truly a fan of his, but i will not let my love for the guy dictate what i think of his capabilities. Rocky, just like any fighter had his flaws, and had he fought in the different era things might have been different for him, for better or worse we will never know. But he's made out to be someone unbeatable and unstoppable to the extreme, and the only leverage to that theory is: 49-0.

as the saying goes, show me an undefeated fighter and ill show you a guy who never fought anybody. and that is not to say that rocky fought bums, he fought whoever was available and his resume is solid. but i dont think he'd keep his undefeated string fighting more talented big men.

You'll often see me defending him on this forum.. Hypathetically, I'd say he's the greatest cruiserweight of all time.. It wasn't just his impeccable record, but he was also a great role model to the aspiring athletes of his day..

[Benny Leonard]

I haven't gone through all the pages so if it has been posted, cool...if not, here is what Tyson had to say to Charlie Rose about if D'Amato had lived:

Time: 9:14




Also, take note that in one of the latest interviews with Kevin Rooney that I posted up before, Rooney thought D'Amato didn't have enough time with Mike and that Tyson was basically incomplete because of it. In other words, think what D'Amato did for Floyd Patterson and Jose Torres.



Also, D'Amato = Motivation, Answers, Discipline, Respect, Plan, Honor, Loyalty, Trust, etc.; which is good for the long haul.