When does your "Lineal Title" expire?

[NotIron]

Tyson Fury retired in 2015 for 3 years but when he returned he was still apparently the Lineal Champion at Heavyweight. How many years do you need to be retired or inactive before it's no longer?

For example if Lennox Lewis came out of retirement today, would he be Lineal Champion? And if so would that mean there are two Lineal Champions at the same time, in him and Usyk?

[JAB5239]

Tyson Fury retired in 2015 for 3 years but when he returned he was still apparently the Lineal Champion at Heavyweight. How many years do you need to be retired or inactive before it's no longer?

For example if Lennox Lewis came out of retirement today, would he be Lineal Champion? And if so would that mean there are two Lineal Champions at the same time, in him and Usyk?

Interesting question. Im not sure on a limit, but I wouldn't say Lennox could come back and be the lineal champion. Once the lineage has been reestablished you need to get back in line.

[Ben Bolt]

When Lewis officially retired, he no longer had any claim to the title. But if he never had announced his retirement, I can imagine some record keepers would have held him lineal until Wlad won the honor in 2009. Inactivity (oh my) would have been a reasonable word for them to finally dethrone Lewis. You can only have one lineal at the time.

The old Ring Record Book listed Philadelphia Jack O’Brien as light heavy champ from 1905 to 1912, despite the fact that he never defended the title. I would like to see a guy getting away with that today.

[NotIron]

Quote function isn't working for me.

JAB5239 What about Fury? I think 3 years out should be long enough, surely?

[JAB5239]

Quote function isn't working for me.

JAB5239 What about Fury? I think 3 years out should be long enough, surely?

I wouldn't argue against that except that Fury and Wilder were numbers 1 and 2 and reestablish the lineage in their second fight.

[Willow The Wisp]

THE Historical Precedent states that, should Oleksander Usyk (for example) came back after a retirement announcement, he retains the linear claim for up to 48 months should he return to action, but only if he fights one of the top 2 acknowledged new title claimants or contenders on the scene, within 3 fights of his return; and wins, will he retain the title and be recognized as the champion in recess for the duration of his absence; thus nullifying any conflicting title claims made during that period for the linial title (Fury). However, should he lose the fight against the new title claimant, his reign as champion will be regarded as having concluded upon his initial retirement announcement (Louis, Ali, Ali 2). Should the sitting champion retire and remain retired for greater than 48 months before announcing and fulfilling a return to the ring, his claim to the title will no longer be valid, and in a title bout arranged during a return to action, he will be listed as the challenger for the title he once held (Jeffries).


Aborted retirements while holding the crown - Duration of retirements from official announcement to comeback fight:


Jeffries.......05/05 - 07/10....62 months
Louis...........03/49 - 09/50....18 months
Ali................04/67 - 10/70....42 months
Ali 2.............07/79 - 10/80....15 months
Fury.............10/16 - 06/18....20 months


Tunney, Marciano and Lewis are the only modern era heavyweight champions to have successfully retired as champion and not come back. Each of these had relinquished any claim as champion, therefore, at the point of their retirement.


In each of the three instances of that, the new champion in the historic line was established by a protracted process in which ALL bonified contenders were sorted by results in the ring, leading to a reestablished world champion who solitified that claim by attrition, through either continued success or losing to a better challenger to replace him, ensuring that the best in the world became champion only through actions in the ring; beyond the corruption of opinion or agenda.

None of those events were challenged by the public, the press or within the industry itself; and each employed a universally accepted means by which title continuity was irrefutably mended to the satisfaction of all.

If you don't buy into this, as being both a logical and the one true process for the establishment of determining the world heavyweight boxing champion, I cannot assist you, and I zealously encourage you to follow any path you like!

Hopefully, that would not be to place your trust in the hands of the aforementioned sanctioning body companies; who presently list, as legitimate top title contenders for their "titles", the likes of:

IBF
13. Peter Kadiru (KOd in first climb up by 23-11 Marcos Antonio Aumada).

WBA
9. Dainier Pero (The younger brother of Lenier).
14.Yoandy Toirac (Just 3-0 but he's matching tough).

WBO
14. Vladyslav Sirenko (Just dropped a nod to Solomon Dacres)
15. Johnny Fisher (Lost rematch to David Allen).


In other words; the history of the linial championship, uniquely among the many titles being sold for a sanctioning fee; is always decided by fights that transpire in the ring, under the Marquis of Queensbury rules of unarmed combat.

[Willie Pep 229]

No set date. Only time will tell.

Take Tunney in 1931. If he chose to fight the winner of Sharkey- Schmeling he would have been recognized as champion by everyone except the NBA and the NYSAC.

Nothing changes but the date.

A lineal claim dies when the fans no longer feel the connection.

Fury pushed that feeling to the max, but with the help of media, and because he chose a truly dangerous opponent in Wilder, the fans were willing to embrace the feeling. I.e. He got away with sitting on the title for four years and it pis-ses off some people.

But really. No set date for when a lineal title ends. Each case is unique.

P.S. Why does everyone want to make boxing a league with rules?

We have enough league sports to satifsy our need for fair play.

Let prize fighting stay a little nebulous; even a little unfair. It empowers us the fan just a little more.

[Ben Bolt]

THE Historical Precedent states that, should Oleksander Usyk (for example) came back after a retirement announcement, he retains the linear claim for up to 48 months should he return to action

Good post. What I’m arguing against is that if a lineal champ announces his retirement, he has renounced the title.
He might still be regarded as the best by the public, but to become lineal again, he has to win the title in the ring once more.

[NotIron]

What about if Floyd Mayweather made a return now at WW? He was the lineal champion when he retired.

He was the Lineal Champion in 2007 when he retired for 18 months. It seemed when he came back, he was no longer considered so?

[Ben Bolt]

He was the Lineal Champion in 2007 when he retired for 18 months. It seemed when he came back, he was no longer considered so?

Floyd lost claim to the title when he retired. When he became lineal again after his comeback is up to debate. Some recognize him from 2010, beating Mosley, but on paper it was a non-title fight. The Ring didn’t recognize him until 2013, some other established sites not until 2015.