When does your "Lineal Title" expire?

[NotIron]

Floyd lost claim to the title when he retired. When he became lineal again after his comeback is up to debate. Some recognize him from 2010, beating Mosley, but on paper it was a non-title fight. The Ring didn’t recognize him until 2013, some other established sites not until 2015.

This just sums up how backwards and next to impossible the whole modern day "Lineal title" is.

First things first, Floyd lost to his claim to the Lineage in 2007 when he retired. Question is why? Fury keeps his for 3 years but Floyd doesn't? There's no consistency. Some lose it at "retirement" and others don't.

Then when he returned, as you correctly put, there's debate when he got it back. Firstly, the fact there can even be a debate makes no sense to me really but hey ho.

So some said he reclaimed it by beating Mosley, because some say Margarito and Cotto fought for the "New Lineage" even though Paul Williams was #2 when they fought meaning they weren't the universal #1 and #2.

The Ring recognised him as their Champion (not always Lineal but often is which further adds to the confusion) when he fought Guererro because they were #1 and #2.

And then others not until 2015 when Floyd and Pacquaio fought as they were the #1 and #2 at WW (and P4P).

So you got 3 claims by the same fighter across a 5 year span Then when he retires it get's even worse.

[kafkod]

There is no such thing as a lineal title. So when a fighter who has been recognised as a lineal champion retires, it's an open question as to how long he can be out and still be recognised as lineal champ when he comes back. Some fans will recognise his claim and some won't. It really all depends on how much clout he and his team have with the media.

[Ben Bolt]

This just sums up how backwards and next to impossible the whole modern day "Lineal title" is.

That it is next to impossible is our own fault, us boxing fans.
Supporters of other sports aren't so damn s*tupid that they would accept four different orgs to run their game.

[JAB5239]

That it is next to impossible is our own fault, us boxing fans.
Supporters of other sports aren't so damn s*tupid that they would accept four different orgs to run their game.

Exactly. One world, one champion. That we've let ourselves fall into this ridiculous cycle of ABC titles falls directly on all of us as boxing fans.

[kafkod]

That it is next to impossible is our own fault, us boxing fans.
Supporters of other sports aren't so damn s*tupid that they would accept four different orgs to run their game.

Exactly. One world, one champion. That we've let ourselves fall into this ridiculous cycle of ABC titles falls directly on all of us as boxing fans.

Google AI overview:

"There are at least five recognized heavyweight champions across major mixed martial arts organizations, including Tom Aspinall (UFC), Francis Ngannou (PFL), Oumar Kane (ONE Championship), and Evgeniy Goncharov (ACA). The number of champions can vary, as major promotions like the UFC, PFL, and ONE Championship each have their own heavyweight division and title holder."

[Ben Bolt]

Google AI overview: "There are at least five recognized heavyweight champions across major mixed martial arts organizations, including Tom Aspinall (UFC), Francis Ngannou (PFL), Oumar Kane (ONE Championship), and Evgeniy Goncharov (ACA). The number of champions can vary, as major promotions like the UFC, PFL, and ONE Championship each have their own heavyweight division and title holder."

You could have chosen to list the majority of sports that have one main organization.

There is no such thing as a lineal title. So when a fighter who has been recognised as a lineal champion retires, it's an open question as to how long he can be out and still be recognised as lineal champ when he comes back. Some fans will recognise his claim and some won't. It really all depends on how much clout he and his team have with the media.

To say that there is no such thing as a lineal title is to re-write boxing history. When I started following proboxing in the mid-70s, it was all about lineal champions, and we had no issues with it. We knew who the real champion was, and what champion held the bogus title (either WBA or WBC).
And when a champion retired, he was no longer a champion. If he returned to the ring, he did so as a challenger. It was no quantum mechanics.

[NotIron]

You could have chosen to list the majority of sports that have one main organization.



To say that there is no such thing as a lineal title is to re-write boxing history. When I started following proboxing in the mid-70s, it was all about lineal champions, and we had no issues with it. We knew who the real champion was, and what champion held the bogus title (either WBA or WBC).
And when a champion retired, he was no longer a champion. If he returned to the ring, he did so as a challenger. It was no quantum mechanics.

It still was kind of confusing even back then, like when Ali came back? Maybe you were too young then to remember but no one really considered Frazier the real champion, unlike he beat Ali. Even though technically he kind of already was.

These days, with the super belts and “elevated” champions and all the rest, I think it’s legitimately impossible to track. I have given up. I have my idea who the current champion is and leave it at that.

[Ben Bolt]

It still was kind of confusing even back then, like when Ali came back? Maybe you were too young then to remember but no one really considered Frazier the real champion, unlike he beat Ali. Even though technically he kind of already was.

These days, with the super belts and “elevated” champions and all the rest, I think it’s legitimately impossible to track. I have given up. I have my idea who the current champion is and leave it at that.

A few days before Frazier vs Ellis 1970, Ali gave his blessing for that fight to be for the world title. It was on this day (either Feb. 3 or Feb. 5) that The Ring declared the title vacant.

The treatment of Ali during his suspension is probably The Ring and Nat Fleisher’s finest hour.
In 1967, WBA and WBC (indirectly) were quick to withdraw Ali’s title. Ali was widely unpopular and considered unpatriotic. Guessable, Fleisher wasn’t a big fan of Ali either, and he was definitely not a fan of the Nation of Islam. Still, he backed Ali's title through these years for reasons of sportsmanship.
It also shows the importance of the lineal title at the time. You had two active title holders, who were “world” champs only in the eyes of WBA and NYSAC. To everyone else, the inactive Ali was the true champion.

The arrival of the IBF was a heavy blow to the lineal system. The IBF promised to clean up the mess WBC and WBA caused, but it was all a lie. The org only ruined the sport's unique tradition even more.

[NotIron]

A few days before Frazier vs Ellis 1970, Ali gave his blessing for that fight to be for the world title. It was on this day (either Feb. 3 or Feb. 5) that The Ring declared the title vacant.

The treatment of Ali during his suspension is probably The Ring and Nat Fleisher’s finest hour.
In 1967, WBA and WBC (indirectly) were quick to withdraw Ali’s title. Ali was widely unpopular and considered unpatriotic. Guessable, Fleisher wasn’t a big fan of Ali either, and he was definitely not a fan of the Nation of Islam. Still, he backed Ali's title through these years for reasons of sportsmanship.
It also shows the importance of the lineal title at the time. You had two active title holders, who were “world” champs only in the eyes of WBA and NYSAC. To everyone else, the inactive Ali was the true champion.

The arrival of the IBF was a heavy blow to the lineal system. The IBF promised to clean up the mess WBC and WBA caused, but it was all a lie. The org only ruined the sport's unique tradition even more.

Yeah I know but still, most people deemed Ali the real champion until Frazier beat him.

Which is kind of the same issue we have today just on a way lesser scale.

[kafkod]

You could have chosen to list the majority of sports that have one main organization.

It's perfectly obvious why I chose MMA to illustrate the point I'm making here.. Stop playing dumb.