The true goat of the heavyweight division Sam Langford?

**Willie Pep 229** · 08-28-2025, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by them_apples

Have a look at this:
Sam Langfords Best Heavyweight Wins

Harry Wills

Langford fought Wills 17 times, winning a number of them.
Wills was 6'3, 210-230 lbs, later considered the #1 contender to Dempsey.
Langford, usually under 185 lbs, consistently beat or held his own with Wills.
Source: First Black Boxing Champions (Moyle, 2010) notes Langford beat every one of the large heavyweights he faced, including Wills.

Sam McVey

Another giant (6'3, 215 lbs), fought Langford 15+ times.
Langford scored multiple wins, including a KO in Paris (1911).
Their rivalry was central to the Black Murderers Row of early 1900s heavyweights.

Joe Jeannette

Met at least 14 times. Langford beat him several times, including a 1910 points win in Paris.
Jeannette was a top black heavyweight rival, durable and technically sound.

Battling Jim Johnson

6'3, 230 lbs, fought Langford 12 times.
Langford defeated him multiple times, showing he could handle much larger, slower men.

Big Bill Tate

6'6, 226 lbs, sparring partner for Jack Dempsey.
Langford beat him repeatedly despite giving up huge size.

Fireman Jim Flynn

Only man to stop Jack Dempsey (on a foul).
Langford fought Flynn many times and knocked him out at least once (1916, New Orleans). Flynn said:
When Langford hit me it felt like a baseball bat. Harder than Dempsey or Johnson.

Gunboat Smith

Fought everyone of the era (Dempsey, Willard, Moran, Fulton).
Smith later admitted Langford ruined him in their final fight, saying:
Langford was the greatest I ever saw. Nobody came close

and this is just a few.

imagine if Ali fought Joe Frazier 17 times? Clearly Langford knew how to fight.

Sam McVey

5' 10 1/2" or 5' 11"

Weighed 211 lbs. in 1920 (at end of career) and <190 lbs. during his young days.

Is this ChatGPT?

**them_apples** · 08-28-2025, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Willie Pep 229

Sam McVey

5' 10 1/2" or 5' 11"

Weighed 211 lbs. in 1920 (at end of career) and <190 lbs. during his young days.

Is this ChatGPT?

It's GPT with 250 boxing related books uploaded into a database it can sift through. think of it as a digital library. the tough part is getting it to answer with sourced info only. I have to be very specific, each month I try to improve the semantics.

5-10 scholarly source (First Black Boxing Champions).
5-11 archival fight records (Ring Battles of Centuries).
6 ft contemporary newspaper reports (Los Angeles Herald cited in I Fight for a Living).
Weight was consistently 205-220 lbs across sources.

6 ft 3 was my bad, anything with a source is correct, anything without a source can be a hallucination. I'm basically trying to make sure everything has a source. If you spot anything, i'll go forward and make sure it has a source. I'm just getting the hang of this. No it is not just typical chat GPT though, it has access to a lot more information.

Boxrec, is not always correct I have found.

Sam Langford: Boxings Uncrowned Champion notes:

Jim Johnson stood 6 ft 3 in and weighed approximately 240 pounds. He was a big man and a strong fighter, and his ability to withstand punishment was known.

**Bronson66** · 08-29-2025, 06:59 AM

Langford beat Wills twice in17 tries.Wills was 6 ft 2in .Name one fight in which Wills was over 215lbs against Langford?
McVey was 5 ft 10 1/2in.
Langford also lost to Tate 4 times Won and lost against Smith
Battling Jim was 5' 9 1/2in.
Dempsey was not stopped on a foul by Flynn.

I suggest you dump GPT, it's already been proven to be full of inaccuracies.

**QueensburyRules** · 08-29-2025, 09:44 AM

- - Without going thru the complexity of complexities of Sam's record, as I recall Sam hit the 20+ mark with Wills as well as being good friends begging the actual legitimacy of the fights likely organized to solely make $$$.

Moreover, Sam wasn't much more than 5-6 or 5-7 in height. His fight vs Jeanette for JJohnson's title was an epic primer in Sam's style...

**NotIron** · 08-30-2025, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by Bronson66

Langford beat Wills twice in17 tries.Wills was 6 ft 2in .Name one fight in which Wills was over 215lbs against Langford?
McVey was 5 ft 10 1/2in.
Langford also lost to Tate 4 times Won and lost against Smith
Battling Jim was 5' 9 1/2in.
Dempsey was not stopped on a foul by Flynn.

I suggest you dump GPT, it's already been proven to be full of inaccuracies.

You’d have to be an idiot to use it anyway. Just learn what you need to know yourself like a normal human being.

Referring to an online automated response maker?

How embarrassing.

And to answer the retarded thread; a resounding NO, is the only answer.

**them_apples** · 08-30-2025, 03:52 PM

you would have to be an idiot to call chat GPT an online response maker. if you noticed it replaced google, and how many of you used google after all these years with a basic key word type search feeding you bogus information.

Chat GPT is a language model

What I am using is chat GPT + a plugged in Library of books. Do you realize how wrong boxrec and google has been over the years? and how we have all used it.

Chat GPT basically showed me 90% of Johnsons stories and quotes and sourcing all stem from the man himself! how hilarious is that.

**them_apples** · 08-30-2025, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Bronson66

Langford beat Wills twice in17 tries.Wills was 6 ft 2in .Name one fight in which Wills was over 215lbs against Langford?
McVey was 5 ft 10 1/2in.
Langford also lost to Tate 4 times Won and lost against Smith
Battling Jim was 5' 9 1/2in.
Dempsey was not stopped on a foul by Flynn.

I suggest you dump GPT, it's already been proven to be full of inaccuracies.

chat GPT is not what you think it is.

Chat GPT is just a language model that searches google. I am responding twice to this comment, one for the idiot saucer and a more polite one for you.

Google has actually be wrong a lot of the time, and has boxrec. I have found many inaccuracies ever since I started using this vector library.

Chat GPT is not "coming up with answers" no, it's navigating a library of boxing books for me and telling me where it dug them up. This would be foolish to drop such a valuable tool.

**them_apples** · 08-30-2025, 04:00 PM

for example:

The Boxing Register (Roberts & Skutt, IBHOF official record book):
Langford and Harry Wills tangled eighteen times. Wills knocked Langford out twice and generally had the better of the series, although it must be noted that the first meeting occurred when Langford was 31 years old.
Graeme Kent, Boxings Strangest Fights:
Pride of place, however, must go to the series between Sam Langford and Harry Wills. They met no fewer than twenty-three times. They fought in Panama, Tulsa, Vernon, Brooklyn and just about every place that boasted a ring.

So, depending on record-keeping, the rivalry is listed as 18-23 meetings.

Furthermore Langford was already losing his eyesight and had been in 100's of battles when he started fighting Wills.

Specifically with Langford, tread lightly when it comes to "facts" as facts are few and far between.

**Willie Pep 229** · 08-30-2025, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by them_apples

you would have to be an idiot to call chat GPT an online response maker. if you noticed it replaced google, and how many of you used google after all these years with a basic key word type search feeding you bogus information.

Chat GPT is a language model

What I am using is chat GPT + a plugged in Library of books. Do you realize how wrong boxrec and google has been over the years? and how we have all used it.

Chat GPT basically showed me 90% of Johnsons stories and quotes and sourcing all stem from the man himself! how hilarious is that.

I am using Google less and less. It has too many sponsored ads and tries to keep you in their domain. You often have to go a whole second screen down before you get to any real search results.

ChatGPT is wonderful and it's the beginning of a new Internet.

But it makes mistakes and I have had to correct it repeatedly.

Oddly enough it accepts my corrections. I say oddly because, if it doesn't know the answer why does it reply with bad answers? Which it does.

Right now I use it as a starter, and try to confirm via Google.

It is an excellent way to outline your own thoughts, often providing new key terms to use in Google searches.

And once you have confirmed the data you can go back to it and have it create a short argumentative passage, if you like.

But as you have seen, it can give bad data back.

The true goat of the heavyweight division Sam Langford?