The true goat of the heavyweight division Sam Langford?

[them_apples]

I am using Google less and less. It has too many sponsored ads and tries to keep you in their domain. You often have to go to a whole second screen down before you get to any real search results.

ChatGPT is wonderful and it's the beginning of a new Internet.

But it makes mistakes and I have had to correct it repeatedly.

Oddly enough it accepts my corrections. I say oddly because, if it doesn't know the answer why does it reply with bad answers? Which it does.

Right now I use it as a starter, and try to confirm via Google.

It is an excellent way to outline your own thoughts, often providing new key terms to use in Google searches.

And once you have confirmed the data you can go back to it and have it create short argumentative passage, if you like.

But as you have seen, it can give bad data back.

it does make mistakes because it is just a language model. it understands human language. so the important part is to use it properly. it needs information. I have given it information. so patience is key. I appreciate you being patient and encourage you to mention anything so I can double check. what other posters don't understand is this custom gpt is pulling from actual books, not google. Jeanette faced Langford this many times:

• Graeme Kent (Boxings Strangest Fights) gives 13 meetings
• First Black Boxing Champions essays say 14 meetings, with Jeannettes only KO loss coming to Langford
• Boxing Registry says 15 times

Here is an example, google could never do this. Google would have made us settle on an incorrect answer. Which source is correct?

I can easily pick apart Camerons books on Marciano as well, he get many things wrong.

[NotIron]

you would have to be an idiot to call chat GPT an online response maker. if you noticed it replaced google, and how many of you used google after all these years with a basic key word type search feeding you bogus information.

Chat GPT is a language model

What I am using is chat GPT + a plugged in Library of books. Do you realize how wrong boxrec and google has been over the years? and how we have all used it.

Chat GPT basically showed me 90% of Johnsons stories and quotes and sourcing all stem from the man himself! how hilarious is that.

Do your own actual research you lazy cunt

[Bronson66]

Do your own actual research you lazy cunt

Apples means well, and does at least try and make threads for the benefit of the Forum, so many of these others are only here to pour vitriol over everyone else,and they further their own agendas,this place is getting very toxic now.

[Bronson66]

chat GPT is not what you think it is.

Chat GPT is just a language model that searches google. I am responding twice to this comment, one for the idiot saucer and a more polite one for you.

Google has actually be wrong a lot of the time, and has boxrec. I have found many inaccuracies ever since I started using this vector library.

Chat GPT is not "coming up with answers" no, it's navigating a library of boxing books for me and telling me where it dug them up. This would be foolish to drop such a valuable tool.

Either way I wish you well in your endeavours, you at least regularly try to contribute.

[Dr Z]

Have a look at this:
Sam Langfords Best Heavyweight Wins

Harry Wills

• Langford fought Wills 17 times, winning a number of them.
• Wills was 6'3, 210-230 lbs, later considered the #1 contender to Dempsey.
• Langford, usually under 185 lbs, consistently beat or held his own with Wills.
• Source: First Black Boxing Champions (Moyle, 2010) notes Langford beat every one of the large heavyweights he faced, including Wills.

---

Sam McVey

• (5'11, 215-220 lbs), fought Langford 15+ times.
• Langford scored multiple wins, including a KO in Paris (1911).
• Their rivalry was central to the Black Murderers Row of early 1900s heavyweights.

---

Joe Jeannette

• Met at least 14 times. Langford beat him several times, including a 1910 points win in Paris.
• Jeannette was a top black heavyweight rival, durable and technically sound.

---

Battling Jim Johnson

• 6'3, 230 lbs, fought Langford 12 times.
• Langford defeated him multiple times, showing he could handle much larger, slower men.

---

Big Bill Tate

• 6'6, 226 lbs, sparring partner for Jack Dempsey.
• Langford beat him repeatedly despite giving up huge size.

---

Fireman Jim Flynn

• Only man to stop Jack Dempsey (on a foul).
• Langford fought Flynn many times and knocked him out at least once (1916, New Orleans). Flynn said:
  When Langford hit me it felt like a baseball bat. Harder than Dempsey or Johnson.

---

Gunboat Smith

• Fought everyone of the era (Dempsey, Willard, Moran, Fulton).
• Smith later admitted Langford ruined him in their final fight, saying:
  Langford was the greatest I ever saw. Nobody came close

---

and this is just a few.

imagine if Ali fought Joe Frazier 17 times? Clearly Langford knew how to fight.

Sam had an amazing career.

[ShoulderRoll]

Langford has a case for being the p4p GOAT.

[Bronson66]

Langford has a case for being the p4p GOAT.

He does.

[them_apples]

Apples means well, and does at least try and make threads for the benefit of the Forum, so many of these others are only here to pour vitriol over everyone else,and they further their own agendas,this place is getting very toxic now.

he's an idiot though, because he doesn't know what I am doing. I am using a semantic search to dig through 100's of books, its like going to a Librarian and asking them what books to look for. He think's I'm just asking GPT questions and posting bogus answers because sometimes it's flawed. I spent 40+ hours rigging this GPT to do the task I wanted it to.

All it's doing is sifting through the pages for me, when I ask it questions. the mans a fool

I have no problems in you calling out errors, because then I can go back and dig up sources. I am trying to be very careful with these posts now - but man stuff IS sourced now, and its benefitting the forum. Ironham is so roided out it makes him think he's intelligent - if anything he's hallucinating not the AI LOL

[them_apples]

Langford beat Wills twice in17 tries.Wills was 6 ft 2in .Name one fight in which Wills was over 215lbs against Langford?
McVey was 5 ft 10 1/2in.
Langford also lost to Tate 4 times Won and lost against Smith
Battling Jim was 5' 9 1/2in.
Dempsey was not stopped on a foul by Flynn.

I suggest you dump GPT, it's already been proven to be full of inaccuracies.

It's a different Jim Johnson. I pulled this right from the weaviate vector database, it only responds with actual text from books. So if this is wrong, the book is wrong.

"Sam Langford fought "Battling" Jim Johnson, with their first fight taking place on May 14, 1910, in Philadelphia. They fought a total of twelve times over the next eight years. Jim Johnson was a much taller heavyweight fighter, standing 6 feet 3 inches tall and weighing approximately 240 pounds. The fights and Johnson's stature are documented in the source titled "SAM LANGFORD-Boxings Uncrowned Champion.pdf."

This means the GPT pulled the numbers from that book, which is a pdf upload in the database.

So unless this is wrong, the Jim johnson it is referring too is 6 ft 3.

On Boxrec, Sam Langfords documented career is highly inaccurate, starting with the most obvious part, he fought about 3x as much as is stated.


what the GPT does, is contact this database, and responds in its own words based on what it finds. This is why it sometimes posts bull****.

the Dempsey foul was indeed a hallucination, so good catch:

"Jack Dempsey was not stopped by a foul by Flynn. Instead, the available sources describe that in their fight on February 13, 1917, Jim "Fireman" Flynn knocked Dempsey out in the first round within about ten seconds. Flynn caught Dempsey with a fierce left hook after pushing Dempsey’s guard with his right hand, which caught Dempsey off guard and led to a knockout with Dempsey going down on his knees and staying down for about twenty seconds. There was controversy and su****ion surrounding this fight, as many suspected Dempsey threw the fight (took a dive) for financial reasons since he was then a financially struggling young boxer. Rumors include reports that Dempsey carried money in his trunks to the fight for such a fix. However, Dempsey always maintained the fight was fair and asserted in multiple autobiographies that the knockout occurred two minutes into the bout, dis*****g the immediate knockout reports. Flynn himself later remarked that he didn’t exactly knock Dempsey out but suggested Dempsey "forgot to duck". No credible sources mention that Dempsey was stopped by a foul by Flynn. The knockout was regarded as swift and effective but not the result of a foul. The main dispute lies between whether it was a legitimate knockout or a fixed fight, not about a foul stopping the fight. In summary, Dempsey was knocked out by Flynn swiftly and cleanly in their fight, with controversy about whether the fight was fixed, but there is no evidence or claim that Dempsey was stopped by a foul from Flynn. Sources: Multiple historical accounts including "JACK DEMPSEY-American Legends.pdf" and "Tunney Boxing's Brainiest Champ & His Upset of the Great Jack Dempsey" by Jack Cavanaugh (2006)."

I guess I should just pull stuff from weaviate instead?

[Bronson66]

T

It's a different Jim Johnson. I pulled this right from the weaviate vector database, it only responds with actual text from books. So if this is wrong, the book is wrong.

"Sam Langford fought "Battling" Jim Johnson, with their first fight taking place on May 14, 1910, in Philadelphia. They fought a total of twelve times over the next eight years. Jim Johnson was a much taller heavyweight fighter, standing 6 feet 3 inches tall and weighing approximately 240 pounds. The fights and Johnson's stature are documented in the source titled "SAM LANGFORD-Boxings Uncrowned Champion.pdf."

This means the GPT pulled the numbers from that book, which is a pdf upload in the database.

So unless this is wrong, the Jim johnson it is referring too is 6 ft 3.

On Boxrec, Sam Langfords documented career is highly inaccurate, starting with the most obvious part, he fought about 3x as much as is stated.


what the GPT does, is contact this database, and responds in its own words based on what it finds. This is why it sometimes posts bull****.

the Dempsey foul was indeed a hallucination, so good catch:

"Jack Dempsey was not stopped by a foul by Flynn. Instead, the available sources describe that in their fight on February 13, 1917, Jim "Fireman" Flynn knocked Dempsey out in the first round within about ten seconds. Flynn caught Dempsey with a fierce left hook after pushing DempseyâÂÂs guard with his right hand, which caught Dempsey off guard and led to a knockout with Dempsey going down on his knees and staying down for about twenty seconds. There was controversy and su****ion surrounding this fight, as many suspected Dempsey threw the fight (took a dive) for financial reasons since he was then a financially struggling young boxer. Rumors include reports that Dempsey carried money in his trunks to the fight for such a fix. However, Dempsey always maintained the fight was fair and asserted in multiple autobiographies that the knockout occurred two minutes into the bout, dis*****g the immediate knockout reports. Flynn himself later remarked that he didnâÂÂt exactly knock Dempsey out but suggested Dempsey "forgot to duck". No credible sources mention that Dempsey was stopped by a foul by Flynn. The knockout was regarded as swift and effective but not the result of a foul. The main dispute lies between whether it was a legitimate knockout or a fixed fight, not about a foul stopping the fight. In summary, Dempsey was knocked out by Flynn swiftly and cleanly in their fight, with controversy about whether the fight was fixed, but there is no evidence or claim that Dempsey was stopped by a foul from Flynn. Sources: Multiple historical accounts including "JACK DEMPSEY-American Legends.pdf" and "Tunney Boxing's Brainiest Champ & His Upset of the Great Jack Dempsey" by Jack Cavanaugh (2006)."

I guess I should just pull stuff from weaviate instead?

There was only one Battling Jim. Langford biographer Clay Moyle credits Langford with 297 confirmed fights, and a further 38 fights that do not have a primary source confirming them.
Box rec credits Langford with 253 fights.