Henry Armstrong At Welterweight?

[Willie Pep 229]

This is the first time anyone has fleshed out Burley for me.

Up until now he was a great 'boxer' who got ducked, maybe!

Now there's a person in the picture.

I had forgotten all about the Barcelona protest games. I wonder if Hitler pushed Franco's hand forward to shut down the protest games?

The N-azi's saw the '36 games as important. I wonder. There were N-azi's all over Spain before, during, and after the Spanish Civil War.

From ChatGPT

Charley (Charles Duane) Burley was a Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania fighter (born 1917 in Bessemer, PA).

What happened in 1936. At age 18–19, Burley refused an invitation to the U.S. Olympic trials in protest of the N-azi regime. Instead, he accepted an invitation to the anti-f-ascist Popular (People’s) Olympics planned for Barcelona as a counter-event to Berlin. The games were canceled when the Spanish Civil War broke out just as athletes arrived; reporting and later histories place Burley in Barcelona with the U.S. delegation when fighting began. He then turned pro that September (his debut was Sept. 29, 1936, Pittsburgh

[Bronson66]

This is the first time anyone has fleshed out Burley for me.

Up until now he was a great 'boxer' who got ducked, maybe!

Now there's a person in the picture.

I had forgotten all about the Barcelona protest games. I wonder if Hitler pushed Franco's hand forward to shut down the protest games?

The N-azi's saw the '36 games as important. I wonder. There were N-azi's all over Spain before, during, and after the Spanish Civil War.

From ChatGPT

Charley (Charles Duane) Burley was a Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania fighter (born 1917 in Bessemer, PA).

What happened in 1936. At age 18–19, Burley refused an invitation to the U.S. Olympic trials in protest of the N-azi regime. Instead, he accepted an invitation to the anti-f-ascist Popular (People’s) Olympics planned for Barcelona as a counter-event to Berlin. The games were canceled when the Spanish Civil War broke out just as athletes arrived; reporting and later histories place Burley in Barcelona with the U.S. delegation when fighting began. He then turned pro that September (his debut was Sept. 29, 1936, Pittsburgh

I recommend Harry Otty's book on Burley.

[them_apples]

Great fighter,19 defences?
Mostly against unranked challengers,with not one black challenger amongst them.
Why?

$$$$$$$?

someone should do a deep dive and find out if blacks really are better fighters like some think, or if it was just segregation rules:

• Its not so much that being black conferred some inherent athletic advantage. Rather:
  • Socioeconomic conditions meant boxing was often one of the few routes out of poverty for black youth (similar to Irish, Italian, ***ish, and Eastern European fighters in earlier generations).
  • Once the color line cracked, the talent pool was massive, and because the best were finally allowed to compete, dominance followed.
• Scholars like Mike Silver (The Arc of Boxing) stress that boxing success historically follows waves of immigrant and marginalized groupsIrish (1880s1900s), ***s (19101930s), Italians (1920s1940s), Blacks (1940s onward), and Latinos (1970spresent).
• In other words: its not race, its opportunity + hardship-driven incentive.

this makes way more sense, cause blacks aren't dominating today that's for sure
​

[QueensburyRules]

So you are saying Burley never got a title shot because he was against ****sm?

Have you any idea how ridiculous you are?

- - U saying US/UK Olympians were for Na zism...priceless!!!

I got a box of snail shells smarter than U.

I like Burley. He had talent, but his socialist bent limited his boxing career...end of...

[Bronson66]

- - U saying US/UK Olympians were for Na zism...priceless!!!

I got a box of snail shells smarter than U.

I like Burley. He had talent, but his socialist bent limited his boxing career...end of...

Were did I say US/UK Olympians were for ****sm.. Burley's style and ability limited his career .not his political beliefs.

[QueensburyRules]

Were did I say US/UK Olympians were for Na zism.. Burley's style and ability limited his career Bot

- - I applied the same idiotic logic U used to claim Burley never got a title shot because he was against na zism.

Already showed the reason he didn't get a title shot is because he went through managers like U go thru snails.

What size dunce cap U wear these days?

[The D3vil]

If you have 19 defences at welterweight and only 3 of them are ranked welters , by definition that is not an incredible reign.

No matter how great Ambers and Arizmendi may have been at lighter weights ,they were neither great at welter or even rated there, ergo that is a cherry pick reign.

The consequences of which meant that deserving contenders like Burley and Holman Williams never got a title shot.

The segregation era? 3 world champions were black 39/40

Who you fight matters more than all of those rankings.

He fought 7 fights against HOF fighters in 2 years, that's not a light schedule by any means.

[Bronson66]

Who you fight matters more than all of those rankings.

He fought 7 fights against HOF fighters in 2 years, that's not a light schedule by any means.

No its not a light schedule,but would you rather he had fought a couple more ranked welters than some of the dross he defended against or not?
How many of those HOF'ers were welters?
The HOF would not exist for several decades, so that excuse doesn't fly anyway.
Who you fight is of course important,but why would you be defending your welter crown against lightweights when there were plenty of ranked welters there for you to fight?

Who you fight is important,when you fight them is just as important!

[Willie Pep 229]

Could someone ID the seven HOF fights, in what 24 month period

I have no doubt he has 7 HOF fights (likely more) but I can't squeeze them into 24 months, nor can I find him winning them all (though that has not been clsimed).

This would be in the WW period I assume?

I can come closer to making the list on 135 lbs fights. But not at WW. Each time I construct the list for WW it extends from 1940-1943 (four years inclusive) and he loses three of those fights.

Help?

[The D3vil]

No its not a light schedule,but would you rather he had fought a couple more ranked welters than some of the dross he defended against or not?
How many of those HOF'ers were welters?
The HOF would not exist for several decades, so that excuse doesn't fly anyway.
Who you fight is of course important,but why would you be defending your welter crown against lightweights when there were plenty of ranked welters there for you to fight?

Who you fight is important,when you fight them is just as important!

Hall of fame fighters are "dross" now?

Who care that the HOF didn't exist at that point, they had HOF careers at that point, which is why they're in the HOF.

Armstrong himself was a featherweight fighting 20lbs up from his natural weight class.

Barney Ross was a naturally bigger guy than Armstrong. Was he cherry picking?

Sure, I'd rather a WW fight ranked WWs, but I"m not going to complain about guys fighting HOF-level fighters

Would I rather watch Canelo Alvarez against William Scull than Terence Crawford???

Hell no. Crawford's a much better, more talented fighter, even if he's smaller.

It's not like now where guys fight once a year & it's usually against a cherrypicked contender.

Could someone ID the seven HOF fights, in what 24 month period

I have no doubt he has 7 HOF fights (likely more) but I can't squeeze them into 24 months, nor can I find him winning them all (though that has not been clsimed).

This would be in the WW period I assume?

I can come closer to making the list on 135 lbs fights. But not at WW. Each time I construct the list for WW it extends from 1940-1943 (four years inclusive) and he loses three of those fights.

Help?

Barney Ross

UD

15

May 31, 1938

Lou Ambers

SD

15

Aug 17, 1938

Ceferino Garcia

UD

15

Nov 25, 1938 (Ring HOF)

Baby Arizmendi

PTS

10

Jan 10, 1939

29 years, 29 days

Lou Ambers

UD

15

Aug 22, 1939

Pedro Montaņez

TKO

9 (15), 0:47

Jan 24, 1940

Ceferino Garcia

PTS

10

Mar 1, 1940 (Ring HOF)