Henry Armstrong At Welterweight?

[Bronson66]

- - I applied the same idiotic logic U used to claim Burley never got a title shot because he was against na zism.

Already showed the reason he didn't get a title shot is because he went through managers like U go thru snails.

What size dunce cap U wear these days?

Maybe U da point, eh?

I never at any time suggested Burley was denied at title shot because he was against ****sm. You are the one that brought that up.
Are you drunk again?.

This is my post.

"He refused to participate in the 1936 Olympics because of his objection to ****sm,which BTW has nothing to do with him being denied his rightful chance at a title shot !"

Now ,why don't you try real hard , break the habit of a lifetime,and post something that isn't a gobblede**** of infantile insults ,and is actually worth more than a cup of cold piss?
Do you think you could do that?

[QueensburyRules]

I never at any time suggested Burley was denied at title shot because he was against ****sm. You are the one that brought that up.
Are you drunk again?.

Now ,why don't you try real hard , break the habit of a lifetime,and post something that isn't a gobblede**** of infantile insults ,and is actually worth more than a cup of cold piss?
Do you think you could do that?

- - Didn't go to the Olympics because he was against Na zism U said.

He went through Mgrs like U go thru snails.

Talented enough to be a big star, but he du mbo like U.

[Bronson66]

- - Somewhere U ducked the IQ lottery. Armstrong very popular put a$$e$ in the seats, hence one of the all time best records giving the people and promoters what they wanted.

Burley was a socialist with strong political feelings, hence ducking the Olympics exacerbated by a rotating cast of mgrs.

Managers: Phil Goldstein and Lou Brown (1936-1940), Luke Carney (1941), Tommy O'Loughlin (1942-1946), Morris Slutsky (1945-1946) Charley Rose, then Lew Burston & Jersey Jones (1946-1948), George Armstrong (1948-1949), Harry Roth (1949-195

Armstrong was getting an average $5.50/.$6000 a defence,hardly record breaking!

[QueensburyRules]

Armstrong was getting an average $5.50/.$6000 a defence,hardly record breaking!

- - Henry Armstrong earned between $500,000 and $1 million in boxing....

[Bronson66]

- - Henry Armstrong earned between $500,000 and $1 million in boxing....

Name one fight in which he grossed $50,000? Take tax ,and his managers cut out of that, add his training expenses, 180fights and he died penniless.

[Willie Pep 229]

Henry Armstrong

One Million over 15 years = 31K a year (1934-1945)*

Manager’s cut (33% of $1,000,000)

1,000,000 \times 0.33 = 330,000

1,000,000 - 330,000 = 670,000


Trainer/cutman (10% of $1,000,000)

1,000,000 \times 0.10 = 100,000

670,000 - 100,000 = 570,000


Taxes (18.5% of remaining $570,000)

570,000 \times 0.185 = 105,450

570,000 - 105,450 = 464,550

570,000 - 105,450 = 464,550


Annual income over 15 years

464,550 \div 15 \approx 30,970

* War taxes would have been higher than the depression years, but it was corporate taxes that soared deliberately. The withholding tax appeared for the working man in 1942, but it was kept low.

I think 18.5 percent tax rate is a reasonable average for the years involved. If tax situation was handled properly, that is. We know that may not have happened.

** In the early years I can see him paying gym fees but I suspect by the time the money making years come up his camp was paid for by the promoter.

I feel safe in suggesting he averaged out to no less than 25K a year in a depression economy. Maybe as high as 31K.

[The D3vil]

I can't believe you are invoking a basketball player to shore up your argument. I understand the HOF.

Fritzie Zivic, Armstrong's successor fought HOFers 3 times when he was welter champ,was his a great reign too?
Bottom line Armstrong defended against 2 ranked welterweights in a total of19 defences,and no amount of spin and obfuscation will ever change that!
Now I think we have taken this as far as we can, so I suggest we stop while we are still being civil to each other.

Armstrong fought 7 times against HOFs in 2 years
Zivic fought 3 times against HOFs in 2 years

Those two things aren't the same.

[Bronson66]

They are when it comes to title defences against ranked welterweights.

[NotIron]

They are when it comes to title defences against ranked welterweights.

Does it really matter that they weren't title defences?

Surely what matters is who he beat at the weight class, and when.

Title defences mean almost nothing to me, personally.

[Bronson66]

Does it really matter that they weren't title defences?

Surely what matters is who he beat at the weight class, and when.

Title defences mean almost nothing to me, personally.

When you rank a champion you rank him on whom he beat at his championship weight,that is a given.Two ranked welters defeated whilst champion just is not sufficient to call it a legendary reign.

His title defences against deserving challengers meant something to those ranked challengers who were denied title shots.
Men like;
Burley
Williams
Mamakos
Leto
KIlrain
Turiello
Aron
Kaplan
Cocoa Kid
Berger
Luftspring


This isnt about whether Armstrong was a great, legendary fighter,its about whether he was an all time great welter weight champion,and ,imo he wasn't.
His lightweight resume is another matter entirely.

We can amicably agree to disagree.