Where Does Golovkin Rank Among The All Time Middles?

[DeeMoney]

Top 20 or so

First ballot HOF

The crazy thing is, people will see this as an insult or hating. Middleweight is possibly the deepest division in history- being top 20 AT is a tremendous compliment.

[joseph5620]

^^^^^ Oh for the love of Buddha another alt I have to put on ignore. Effing roaches
PS. Lemme guess, Dunce is GhostofAssclown

[Dr Z]

Sure.


Greb
Robinson
Monzon
Hagler
Steele
Ketchel
Walker
Hopkins
Fitzsimmons
Flowers


Golovkin doesn't make the cut. Sorry.

Thank you.

How do you come to such conclusions?


# of title defense at 160?

# of ring magazine fighters beaten at 160?

You're first four guys are fine.

But Ketchel, and Flowers over GGG? You have got some explaining to do.


This thread will provide the space to do so.

[JAB5239]

Thank you.

How do you come to such conclusions?


# of title defense at 160?

# of ring magazine fighters beaten at 160?

You're first four guys are fine.

But Ketchel, and Flowers over GGG? You have got some explaining to do.


This thread will provide the space to do so.

How could you not have Flowers over Golovkin? All you need to do is look at his resume.

[DeeMoney]

How could you not have Flowers over Golovkin? All you need to do is look at his resume.

I imagine its because they think Golovkin was a better fighter in the ring than Flowers, even if his opponents were not (sorry edit).

I think of it this way, Ali's resume is clearly better than Louis's or Dempsey's, yet I regularly hear people state that they have either Louis or Dempsey ranked ahead of Ali. Oddly enough, do I rarely hear Ali's superior resume being cited as a refute, usually the Ali defense is his superior athleticism or in ring ability.

I guess sometimes we evaluate resume and sometimes we don't

[QueensburyRules]

I imagine its because they think Golovkin was a better fighter in the ring than Flowers, even if his opponents were.

I think of it this way, Ali's resume is clearly better than Louis's or Dempsey's, yet I regularly hear people state that they have either Louis or Dempsey ranked ahead of Ali. Oddly enough, do I rarely hear Ali's superior resume being cited as a refute, usually the Ali defense is his superior athleticism or in ring ability.

I guess sometimes we evaluate resume and sometimes we don't

- - Ali hung around too long stinking out boxing while being gifted decisions. What champ gets beat by Neon Leon?

Joe and Jack were sluggers giving no quarter. A popcorn runner like Ali having to fight in 6 oz gloves is a death sentence.

Ali does have an advantage of the strength of Kenny, Joe, and George matches, but he also got beat up a bunch by those guys and was never the same after Big George ruined him.

[JAB5239]

I imagine its because they think Golovkin was a better fighter in the ring than Flowers, even if his opponents were.

I think of it this way, Ali's resume is clearly better than Louis's or Dempsey's, yet I regularly hear people state that they have either Louis or Dempsey ranked ahead of Ali. Oddly enough, do I rarely hear Ali's superior resume being cited as a refute, usually the Ali defense is his superior athleticism or in ring ability.

I guess sometimes we evaluate resume and sometimes we don't

I think the man who beat the better fighters is the better fighter. Resumes are tangible evidence to me. Who were think or want to be the better fighter isnt. Jmo.

[DeeMoney]

I think the man who beat the better fighters is the better fighter. Resumes are tangible evidence to me. Who were think or want to be the better fighter isnt. Jmo.

Thats a fair opinion, but if Joe Louis were a better fighter than Ali (based on in ring ability, and assuming we could know such things) would there ever be a possible way for him to prove that? He never would have had the opportunity to be better in your mind because there simply werent the available opponents for him to prove it by having as good of a resume. So in essence we arent measuring how good the given fighter is, just how good his opponents were.

Moreover, though resumes are tangible, its not as if there is some standardized objective measurement to resumes, so in the end its still who we think is better- its just that instead of us thinking about a given fighter now we are thinking about their opponents.

[joseph5620]

Thank you.

How do you come to such conclusions?


# of title defense at 160?

# of ring magazine fighters beaten at 160?

You're first four guys are fine.

But Ketchel, and Flowers over GGG? You have got some explaining to do.


This thread will provide the space to do so.

Look at their resumes and you'll understand why. You can debate Ketchel but Flowers resume craps all over Golovkin's.

Ketchel's win over Jack O'Brian is better than any win on Golovkin's resume..Also, Ketchel stepped up and fought Sam Langford and Jack Johnson. Golovkin didn't even want to move beyond four pounds to fight Andre Ward. That alone puts him over Golovkin in my rankings.

[DeeMoney]

1. Harry Greb (609) 2. Ray Robinson (575)
3. Carlos Monzon (527)
4. Marvin Hagler (493)
5. Mickey Walker (448)
6. Stanley Ketchel (446)
7. Bob Fitzsimmons (377)
8. Bernard Hopkins (256)
9. Charley Burley (251)
10. Marcel Cerdan (248)

Im trying to figure who Golovkin ko's on this list. Maybe Ketchel? Im not sure. Ketchel is also the only one i think he truly beats from this list. If i were to guess I'd say he belongs between 10 and 20 all time. Helluva fighter, f un to watch. Would have bas a better professional career had he no remained an amateur so long.

I know this isn't your list, but you did cite it so I figured I'd ask you about it. Who does Fitzsimmons have on his MW resume that you feel justifies him earning a spot on this list? I know he beat Corbett and Jack O'Brien, and he drew with Choynski, but all of those fights were above the middleweight limit. Even one of his few MW title fights he was a lot heavier than 160. His MW resume is full of 3 and 4 round fights against mostly up and comers. So why do we rate him so highly as a MW?

Or is the rating number a vote based on their whole career, and then we later assigned him to the MW division because he spent some time there?