Canelo vs these fighters

[them_apples]

Canelo vs Langford
Canelo vs Ezzard Charles
Canelo vs Archie Moore
Canelo vs Bob Foster
Canelo vs Harry Greb
Canelo vs Tommy Loughran
Canelo vs Gene Tunney
Canelo vs Bob Fitzsimmons
Canelo vs Jack Dempsey

I have him being stopped by everyone, including Greb just on a one sided accumulation. I see Langford knocking him ice cold.

They all roughly weigh the same, though Canelo looks like he could drop about 15 lb minimum (he looks built up to me).

[SouthpawRight]

Ezzard’a slique upper body movement gives Saul fits like Floyd did

Ezzard was instrumental in molding the slique black American counters at midrange style that we see today

you listed a buncha big guys who were effective up to heavyweight

I don’t think the size advantage is necessary

Floyd’s Cousin James Toney and Bernard would school Saul too

[them_apples]

Ezzard’a slique upper body movement gives Saul fits like Floyd did

Ezzard was instrumental in molding the slique black American counters at midrange style that we see today

you listed a buncha big guys who were effective up to heavyweight

I don’t think the size advantage is necessary

Floyd’s Cousin James Toney and Bernard would school Saul too

they all kill him. Charles knocks him out he doesn't just give him fits.

[SouthpawRight]

they all kill him. Charles knocks him out he doesn't just give him fits.

Thomas Hearns Saul would be good match

Tommy was a glass cannon with an incredible right and great jab

but hittable with leaky defense and so and so chin

[them_apples]

Thomas Hearns Saul would be good match

Tommy was a glass cannon with an incredible right and great jab

but hittable with leaky defense and so and so chin

I think Hearns gets him as well by devastating knockout. Pretty sure Hagler did something to Tommy that night. Hearns always had leaky defense being a taller guy at WW and using his range and power to keep people at bay - I just think Hagler mentally and maybe physically took something out of Hearns. people kinda forget Hagler put him away on a stretcher

[DeeMoney]

I get the whole premise of same day weigh-ins versus previous day weigh-ins, but I think this is a bit too far of a reach. Canelo’s best was either his run at Super Welter or his time at Super Middle, with only brief forays into light heavy. Most of these fighters here were at their best at Light Heavy and most of them fought against (or actually were) heavyweight champions. So unless we are requiring them to boil down to 154 its not really fair to Canelo.

Additionally, and I get we are listing ATGs here, I think Canelo is just a tier down between the level generally shown here. Which isn’t bad, because most everyone here is a top 50 all time type guy, whereas I imagine Canelo being more in that top 75 all time range.

That being written, I’ll give it a go.
Langford- Langford’s a tank, and I love how he cuts off the ring. Canelo is great at slipping punches and countering, but I don’t see him phasing Langford enough to keep him off. Strongly favor Langford.
Charles- I sometimes rate the younger version of Charles as the second best P4P I have seen. He is a punching machine, and its similar to Langford, though Charles is more like a sword and Langford like a sledge hammer. Strongly favor Charles.
Archie- I actually think this would be a fun fight. Lots of good head movement, both fighters looking to impose their style. But I think Moore is a bit too diverse and can find more options to victory, and as with the other two, his natural size advantage helps him out. Comfortably favor Moore.
Foster- If Canelo can get his way inside that jab he has a path to victory, but that’s a big IF. Remember when everyone felt Canelo was too small for Kovalev, which he probably was if it was prime Kovalev, Foster is clearly taller and longer than Kovalev though. I think Foster fights his fight more often than not and picks away to a win- but Canelo could maybe get inside. Comfortably favor Foster.
Greb- We’ve never seen Greb, but his resume speaks for itself. Would clearly favor Greb on that, but just can’t make an accurate assessment on how without the film.
Loughran- Bad style matchup for Canelo, Loughran can just stick and move all day to a victory. Though he does throw some wide punches at times, Canelo has a path there if he can catch him. Favor Loughran.
Tunney- Everything Bivol did to him, and a little more. Tunney can outbox him and has great defensive skills. Bad matchup for Canelo. Strongly favor Tunney.
Fitzsimmons- A fair matchup size wise, and I think a lot of similarities. Both got head movement, good power punches. I think the rules of the fight would dictate this; 19^th century rules favor Fitzsimmons, modern rules favor Canelo.
Dempsey- Come on, Dempsey was a heavyweight, even if he was a modern day cruiser. Canelo isn’t beating very good fighters at light heavy, let alone Dempsey’s size.

[them_apples]

I get the whole premise of same day weigh-ins versus previous day weigh-ins, but I think this is a bit too far of a reach. Canelo’s best was either his run at Super Welter or his time at Super Middle, with only brief forays into light heavy. Most of these fighters here were at their best at Light Heavy and most of them fought against (or actually were) heavyweight champions. So unless we are requiring them to boil down to 154 its not really fair to Canelo.

Additionally, and I get we are listing ATGs here, I think Canelo is just a tier down between the level generally shown here. Which isn’t bad, because most everyone here is a top 50 all time type guy, whereas I imagine Canelo being more in that top 75 all time range.

That being written, I’ll give it a go.
Langford- Langford’s a tank, and I love how he cuts off the ring. Canelo is great at slipping punches and countering, but I don’t see him phasing Langford enough to keep him off. Strongly favor Langford.
Charles- I sometimes rate the younger version of Charles as the second best P4P I have seen. He is a punching machine, and its similar to Langford, though Charles is more like a sword and Langford like a sledge hammer. Strongly favor Charles.
Archie- I actually think this would be a fun fight. Lots of good head movement, both fighters looking to impose their style. But I think Moore is a bit too diverse and can find more options to victory, and as with the other two, his natural size advantage helps him out. Comfortably favor Moore.
Foster- If Canelo can get his way inside that jab he has a path to victory, but that’s a big IF. Remember when everyone felt Canelo was too small for Kovalev, which he probably was if it was prime Kovalev, Foster is clearly taller and longer than Kovalev though. I think Foster fights his fight more often than not and picks away to a win- but Canelo could maybe get inside. Comfortably favor Foster.
Greb- We’ve never seen Greb, but his resume speaks for itself. Would clearly favor Greb on that, but just can’t make an accurate assessment on how without the film.
Loughran- Bad style matchup for Canelo, Loughran can just stick and move all day to a victory. Though he does throw some wide punches at times, Canelo has a path there if he can catch him. Favor Loughran.
Tunney- Everything Bivol did to him, and a little more. Tunney can outbox him and has great defensive skills. Bad matchup for Canelo. Strongly favor Tunney.
Fitzsimmons- A fair matchup size wise, and I think a lot of similarities. Both got head movement, good power punches. I think the rules of the fight would dictate this; 19^th century rules favor Fitzsimmons, modern rules favor Canelo.
Dempsey- Come on, Dempsey was a heavyweight, even if he was a modern day cruiser. Canelo isn’t beating very good fighters at light heavy, let alone Dempsey’s size.

you know, I totally agree of course

[Bronson66]

Canelo vs Langford
Canelo vs Ezzard Charles
Canelo vs Archie Moore
Canelo vs Bob Foster
Canelo vs Harry Greb
Canelo vs Tommy Loughran
Canelo vs Gene Tunney
Canelo vs Bob Fitzsimmons
Canelo vs Jack Dempsey

I have him being stopped by everyone, including Greb just on a one sided accumulation. I see Langford knocking him ice cold.

They all roughly weigh the same, though Canelo looks like he could drop about 15 lb minimum (he looks built up to me).

At what weight? Give us a max and a min?

[SouthpawRight]

I think Hearns gets him as well by devastating knockout. Pretty sure Hagler did something to Tommy that night. Hearns always had leaky defense being a taller guy at WW and using his range and power to keep people at bay - I just think Hagler mentally and maybe physically took something out of Hearns. people kinda forget Hagler put him away on a stretcher

how about Marvin Hag VS Saul?

I see 160 as Saul’s “real weight”

Charles- Charles as the second best P4P I have seen.

who is 1st best P4P?

what about Carlos Monzon VS Saul?

[DeeMoney]

how about Marvin Hag VS Saul?

I see 160 as Saul’s “real weight”

who is 1st best P4P?

what about Carlos Monzon VS Saul?

SRR is the best P4P I have ever seen- and I dont have Ez as my #2 anymore- but there was a time.

Monzon keeps Canelo at bay with the 1,2 for most of the night. Alvarez has his moments, but Monzon methodically picks him apart.