Why I've come to respect Rocky Marciano so much (and it's not about 49-0).

[them_apples]

It's hard not to admire Marciano's dedication, conditioning, will to win, etc.

But to claim that he would crush all the big HWs that came after him, is absurd! To think that guys like Lewis the Ks, etc. would just be big targets with no chance against him, is the hight if silliness and hero-worship.

it’s not quite silliness and hero worship - I gave clear indications why I think he does. I can give a break down as well on how he would do it stylistically as well.

great to see you back Bundana

[Bundana]

itâs not quite silliness and hero worship - I gave clear indications why I think he does. I can give a break down as well on how he would do it stylistically as well.

great to see you back Bundana

Right back at you, mate!

We've had our differences here in the past, but you have never resorted to name-calling... which is how it should be (but, unfortunately, seldom is!).

[travestyny]

I like the nuance here, but note that same nuanced approach is missing for other fighters (especially one well known for being the ultimate gym rat).

[them_apples]

I like the nuance here, but note that same nuanced approach is missing for other fighters (especially one well known for being the ultimate gym rat).

I disagree.

look at my posts about Floyd Mayweather:

I said he was a very hard worker. so first and foremost - anyone who works very hard is going to be very good at something.

But at the ATG level - he is not in contention for the GOAT. He's likely not even in the top 15 - and this is because so many men have tackled the same problem over the decades. Men who were living in circumstances that forced them to push themselves even harder than Floyd did, and perhaps had even better genetics for combat.

It's not always out there in the open to see. Even a fighter like Duran, known later in his career to house poor training habits. Yes, this is true - and later in his career he started losing fights he never should have. Here is the kicker though:

If you ask Ray Arcel, he said Duran had the type of personality that would allow him to accel at ANY-thing given he wanted to do it or felt compelled to. This is a combination of his survival of the fittest environment and his personality that regulated his stress response. So when Duran was Duran, he pushed himself to the absolute limit - for years. The way a guy like Duran trained when it mattered very likely out-paced a guy like Floyd, who's best attribute is discipline. This is why hard work ALWAYS matters most over anything else.

In Marcianos case, he essentially sacrificed his life and psychology to become the ultimate combat machine. he knew what the results would be and he knew what was required. You need to do more than everyone else, for longer - and over time you will get the results.

if you look into what he was doing in the last 3 years of his career - he was producing an output that requires years of pre requisite training. He built himself up for all day, intense training sessions. Food was just a pit stop to keep going. Eat, Sleep, train. 10 years. no friends, not even family. I believe this also effected his mind over time. He became extremely ornery - but also morbidly confident in himself with a total non reliance on outside validation from others. this is the natural effect of this type of training. the same thing that would happen to soldiers that had to complete forced marches over months (something not even special forces deal with anymore).

So I borderline get confrontational when I hear things like "Lennox is too big for him". Lennox went to MY high-school. there is nothing in his life that would ever push him to endure what Marciano was doing.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Rock was good for boxing, but also he came along at the time of aging Greats, so in that respect, he got lucky along with an iconic record that seems otherworldly 49-0, 43 KO.

Top ten in guts and grit for sure.

[them_apples]

- - Rock was good for boxing, but also he came along at the time of aging Greats, so in that respect, he got lucky along with an iconic record that seems otherworldly 49-0, 43 KO.

Top ten in guts and grit for sure.

I covered that in this post. He did take on aging greats - and he did so in a short span of time with very little experience. Thats not my point though in regards to how good he was. It’s how he did it. His resume isn’t the greatest of all time - but at heavyweight it’s actually quite good. There aren’t many good resumes at heavyweight to begin with.

[Mr Mitts]

Let's see. I don't think Marciano was clever as hell. He was also quite inaccurate. The list of those I think would beat him is rather long to make, but I will list some. It looks to me like Langford might have trashed him. Tunney, Dempsey, Jefferies, Johnson, Louis, Ali, Liston, Frazier, Lewis, Holyfield, Fury, Foreman, Tyson and Usyk would all be my favorites to win over him. There are probably some contenders of the past who might beat him also, like Sailor Sharkey or Cleveland Williams. I wouldn't even bet on Rock to beat the likes of Joshua or Rahman. Those are about even fights as I see it.

Am I trashing Rock? I don't think so, just being realistic. Great heart and chin, neither one of which would do him much good against historical elites IMO. Is he a great example? Yes. Was he consistently in better shape than almost all other fighters of any weight? Yes. He will beat all the second tier heavyweight champs, like Braddock, Sharkey, Patterson, Johannsen, Fitz, Willard, Sullivan et al. Would be considered a super hard punching heavyweight these days? Not at all, just another puncher with weak skin. He would be a hard punching cruiser though.

[them_apples]

Let's see. I don't think Marciano was clever as hell. He was also quite inaccurate. The list of those I think would beat him is rather long to make, but I will list some. It looks to me like Langford might have trashed him. Tunney, Dempsey, Jefferies, Johnson, Louis, Ali, Liston, Frazier, Lewis, Holyfield, Fury, Foreman, Tyson and Usyk would all be my favorites to win over him. There are probably some contenders of the past who might beat him also, like Sailor Sharkey or Cleveland Williams. I wouldn't even bet on Rock to beat the likes of Joshua or Rahman. Those are about even fights as I see it.

Am I trashing Rock? I don't think so, just being realistic. Great heart and chin, neither one of which would do him much good against historical elites IMO. Is he a great example? Yes. Was he consistently in better shape than almost all other fighters of any weight? Yes. He will beat all the second tier heavyweight champs, like Braddock, Sharkey, Patterson, Johannsen, Fitz, Willard, Sullivan et al. Would be considered a super hard punching heavyweight these days? Not at all, just another puncher with weak skin. He would be a hard punching cruiser though.

The reason why he is so clever is that everyone THINKS he's slow and misses punches like a buffoon. He does this on purpose though. He does this to make his opponents make mistakes. I'm not the only one who mentioned this. Cus d' amato did too. and TBH I copy rock in the ring myself and boy does it ever work (it's gotten me pulled out of the ring before) . it's a real clever skill. all you have to do is watch the shot that actually takes the guy out. Usually a highly leveraged laser beam. the rest of it is play fighting. i've even seen him back up on purpose while his opponent pushes him. Marciano's only game plan was to line up a homerun on your head.

I've been going off about this for about 2 years now (half the forum hates me for it). I'm telling you Rock is one of the best fighters to ever do it. He's the calmest - most dedicated fighter of the modern era.

[Mr Mitts]

I don't hate you, I just think you are way out on a limb claiming Rock missed punches on purpose. I do not buy any part of that, and I don't buy any part of he was clever. He was a long way from accurate and even farther from clever. I believe there is a real chance that even Wilder would decapitate him before he could get started. Let us not pretend that he ever took a punch equivalent to Wilder's.

[them_apples]

I don't hate you, I just think you are way out on a limb claiming Rock missed punches on purpose. I do not buy any part of that, and I don't buy any part of he was clever. He was a long way from accurate and even farther from clever. I believe there is a real chance that even Wilder would decapitate him before he could get started. Let us not pretend that he ever took a punch equivalent to Wilder's.

so basically - if you ever want to study rocky fight - keep a few things in mind and let me know what you think - for a minute just pretend I am right about everything - then afterwards feel free to come to your own conclusions. (only if you want to, that is).

1: his rythm is that of someone appearing vulnerable. Goldman taught him to do this. Taught him to purposely miss by a hair to make his opponent's think they really had him. When they committed they ran right into something hard.

2: his unique method of punching borrowed from baseball. He punches like a batter and fully understands leverage. There are plenty of photos of him in mid punch - looks just like a batter hitting a ball. As we know, Marciano loved baseball.

3: he rides and rolls with punches extremely well. This is one reason why he is so hard to actually hurt

4: he is a small fighter - but extremely strong. don't let his looks fool you - watch his body interactions and watch how little effect blows have on him when they land. Sometimes they just bounce off of him like a shell bouncing off armor.

5: You might think he is slow - but focus on the shot that knocks the guy out. It's usually an absolute laser beam

6: watch right before the Walcott knockout - he shuffles his feet in range so rapidly its not readily noticeable - but you will notice it.