Top 50ish P4P 1960-Present

[DeeMoney]

Idk how i feel about this list overall. Put Chavez top teir is wild. So Chavez first 48-0 was better than Larry holms ? Nah. Chavez had alot of cans.

For certain, JCC fought a lot of no hopers- but I dont think those fights are the ones being looked at. Chavez had 115 pro fights, even if 3/4 of those were domestic level fighters and below that would still give him over 40 fights of higher quality.

I imagine the OP was basing his analysis more on those top level fights than on the numerous fights against lower level opponents. Ergo I think the Holmes comparison is a specious one. And this is from someone who felt he shouldve had others he rated lower than JCC above him.

Still, cant strawman the argument, even if I agree with part of your premise

[Willie Pep 229]

For certain, JCC fought a lot of no hopers- but I dont think those fights are the ones being looked at. Chavez had 115 pro fights, even if 3/4 of those were domestic level fighters and below that would still give him over 40 fights of higher quality.

I imagine the OP was basing his analysis more on those top level fights than on the numerous fights against lower level opponents. Ergo I think the Holmes comparison is a specious one. And this is from someone who felt he shouldve had others he rated lower than JCC above him.

Still, cant strawman the argument, even if I agree with part of your premise

Comparing Holmes and Chavez by their first 48 fights is specious.

They developed in two different universes of the game. Chavez's first 48 fights were his amateur years, Mexican style.

[QueensburyRules]

Idk how i feel about this list overall. Put Chavez top teir is wild. So Chavez first 48-0 was better than Larry holms ? Nah. Chavez had alot of cans.

- - Tubby Lar who was still skinny then was quite skillful with his can opener. On the bogus Foreman Loss to Jimmy Young, Holmes, 23-0 was making peanuts fighting 5-1 Horace Robinson age unknown who finished his career 8-6, 4 KO with 3 KO losses.

Wow!!!!!!!

[Willie Pep 229]

You think maybe in his early years (first 50 fights) JC Chavez ever fought on a "mixed card" ?

No I don't think mean race.

I'm thinking about a card out of Mexicali, with two four rounders, and an eight round main event, and four cock fights between bouts. Just to keep the gambling going.

Seriously, when he strated out just how low on the totem poll where his fights. Did he ever have to share a night with a few cock fights?

[MalevolentBite]

For certain, JCC fought a lot of no hopers- but I dont think those fights are the ones being looked at. Chavez had 115 pro fights, even if 3/4 of those were domestic level fighters and below that would still give him over 40 fights of higher quality.

I imagine the OP was basing his analysis more on those top level fights than on the numerous fights against lower level opponents. Ergo I think the Holmes comparison is a specious one. And this is from someone who felt he shouldve had others he rated lower than JCC above him.

Still, cant strawman the argument, even if I agree with part of your premise

Then by this logic. Hopkins is teir one. His career overall with his wins as he age was better then chavez. Lets be serious. The first ranking topic he stated was resume. JJC isnt better than Hopkins.

no strawman argument. Lets make it a even playing field.

[MalevolentBite]

- - Tubby Lar who was still skinny then was quite skillful with his can opener. On the bogus Foreman Loss to Jimmy Young, Holmes, 23-0 was making peanuts fighting 5-1 Horace Robinson age unknown who finished his career 8-6, 4 KO with 3 KO losses.

Wow!!!!!!!

60-70 of JJC fights were cans. When Larry won the belt he was the number heavyweight fighting the top guys. JJC probably got 11 legit names and some of those wins were sketchy draw, 1 bad call and some loses during his prime past 48-0.

[MalevolentBite]

Comparing Holmes and Chavez by their first 48 fights is specious.

They developed in two different universes of the game. Chavez's first 48 fights were his amateur years, Mexican style.

Gotcha. After 48-0 was his prime years, right
?Name 11 fighters he beat that you would say were elite. I will give you Taylor on a bad call and Greg Haugen. Mayweather rematch he was shot, Hector was shot, after that he lost every step up fight. He wasted years fighting cans.

[Willie Pep 229]

60-70 of JJC fights were cans. When Larry won the belt he was the number heavyweight fighting the top guys. JJC probably got 11 legit names and some of those wins were sketchy draw, 1 bad call and some loses during his prime past 48-0.

I don't want to prove how great or not great Chavez's was.

I wanted to point out that comparing Chavez's first 48 fights with Holmes' first 48 fights is a bogus comparison. That's all.

P.S. I don't make lists. I think they are silly. On some occasions I participate, but certainly not on an argument about what tier a fighter belongs. A waste of energy and not much to do with boxing's history.

[DeeMoney]

Then by this logic. Hopkins is teir one. His career overall with his wins as he age was better then chavez. Lets be serious. The first ranking topic he stated was resume. JJC isnt better than Hopkins.

no strawman argument. Lets make it a even playing field.

I get that, except longevity is listed as a separate criteria on its own. I imagine, and once again this aint my formula here, that "resume" refers to their top "X" wins (probably top 5-10 ish) and then he adds on a little more for longevity.

[MalevolentBite]

I don't want to prove how great or not great Chavez's was.

I wanted to point out that comparing Chavez's first 48 fights with Holmes' first 48 fights is a bogus comparison. That's all.

P.S. I don't make lists. I think they are silly. On some occasions I participate, but certainly not on an argument about what tier a fighter belongs. A waste of energy and not much to do with boxing's history.

Its not bogus. I am stating a fact 70-80% of chavez career was cans not even wbc ranked top fighters during his run 48-0. After 48. He fought 11 legit opponents and drew a few and lost to the rest and only beat Taylor, huegan thats it. Chavez didn't win a belt until 44-0. Up until Taylor, all cans. After Taylor then Greg Haugen. Drew with pernell ( elite) After that lost to a crackhead Frankie ( cherry pick and got robbed in the rematch), lost to dela Hoya, sprinkle in a few more bum wins and then add in the rest of his loses. Thats his career. Larry holms looked unbeatable against ranked opponents then came back at an older age and still pulled off an great upset.

I get it. I understand. I just smell bias. Alot of people have built-in bias due being aw struck, marketing and cultural bias.