Top 50ish P4P 1960-Present

[SCtrojansbaby]

I'm interested in what you see in JCC's and Monzon's resume that you don't see in Durans (as resume was specifically cited as the reason why he is behind them)?

Moreover, as to your methodology, how exactly do you quantify within each category? I know resume itself accounts for 50% of the overall grade but how did you determine the resume grade to then give it a value that could become measured? Did you look at each fighters resume and then assign it a numerical grade (later multiplying that by 50%)? If so, doesnt that somewhat overlap with longevity, and thus make that 25% for longevity difficult to pinpoint?

Furthermore, in evaluating resume into a numerical measurement, how much did you take into account a given opponents overall ability at the specific time and weight? Monzon is a legendary fighter, but some of the big name opponents on his resume were past their prime, and fighting above their best weight. Is this taken into account (if so, how)? Or do we just say Emile Griffith was an atg and Monzon beat him so he gets 'X' amount of points for his resume.

Additionally to the what do you see in JCCs and Monzons resume that you dont see in Durans; what do you see in Fenech's, Donaire's, and Harada's that you don't see in the generally accepted ATGs that you rate below them (I assume resume is the key here as it is your largest criteria)?Does picking off an old version of Zarate or Azumah Nelson count that high (because Whittaker beat an early 30s version of Nelson, as opposed to the 50 year old one Fenech beat). Or fighting Harada, outside of Jofre whose the second best name on his resume to move him up so high?

Duran's win over Leonard is absolutely all time elite and that almost on its own gets him into tier 2. But what's his 2nd best win? Is it better than Monzon/JCC 2nd best win? 3rd best win? Even their 4th best win?

and of course if how, what weight, and when you beat an opponent is everything

[SCtrojansbaby]

The board may wish to consider Joe Calzage for tier 4 as he beat Jones, and Hopkins and has a 0 at the end of his record..

Hell no. I would put Collins Benn and Froch over him h2h and resume wise

I would put Hamed's resume over him too.
I think Watson makes easy work of him h2h with him too

[JAB5239]

WK was # 1 p4p in Ring Magazine. You can get no higher.

The board may wish to consider Joe Calzage for tier 4 as he beat Jones, and Hopkins and has a 0 at the end of his record.

Monzon is overrated here. His resume of wins is average.

Jones was roided up. It's hard to say what he is without the PED's.

He was never number one. Surprisingly he did make it to number two for a short time, but his era was dismal.

[Mr Mitts]

Maybe that is the dumbest list I have ever seen on here. Hard to tell. There have been some bad ones. Now the guy wants to defend it.

[JAB5239]

Yes, he did.

Do you ever tire of being wrong? Wlad made it as high as #2 from November 25, 2014 until March 18, 2015 when he was bumped to #3 in favor of Roman Gonzalez. Stop making things up on here. Other people actually fact check and do research.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...pound_rankings

[Dr Z]

Do you ever tire of being wrong? Wlad made it as high as #2 from November 25, 2014 until March 18, 2015 when he was bumped to #3 in favor of Roman Gonzalez. Stop making things up on here. Other people actually fact check and do research.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...pound_rankings

Okay so he was #2 in ring magazine's pound for pound ratings. You have been multiple times before so ...

Are the monthly rankings archived on line for Ring Magazine?

[QueensburyRules]

Duran's win over Leonard is absolutely all time elite and that almost on its own gets him into tier 2. But what's his 2nd best win? Is it better than Monzon/JCC 2nd best win? 3rd best win? Even their 4th best win?

and of course if how, what weight, and when you beat an opponent is everything

- - Duran transcends your tier system according to IBRO:

P4P-1. Ray Robinson (602) 2. Henry Armstrong (536) 3. Harry Greb (499) 4. Sam Langford (395) 5. Roberto Duran (376) 6. Wille Pep

[DeeMoney]

Duran's win over Leonard is absolutely all time elite and that almost on its own gets him into tier 2. But what's his 2nd best win? Is it better than Monzon/JCC 2nd best win? 3rd best win? Even their 4th best win?

and of course if how, what weight, and when you beat an opponent is everything

Oh absolutely Duran's next top few wins are on par with Chavez and Monzon's. Lets look at them:

Duran's best scalp is SRL, thats tops, better than Cahvez's (Edwin Rosario) or Monzon's (Emile Griffith). Duran's next best victory was against future HOFer Ken Buchanan, who he took the belt from in Buchanan's prime. Buchanan was a very good fighter and he was in his prime when Duran beat him. Monzon's next best scalp would be Benvenutti, who Monzon beat twice at the very end of Benvenutti's career. I put prime Buchanan over old Benvenutti. The next best name for Chavez was Meldrick Taylor, who credit for beating twice, but I wouldn't say he is better than Ken Buchanan.

3-4-5 for Duran I go DeJesus, Palomino and Barkley, and mind you this isn't the old Barkley that stuck around too long, this was just KO'd Hearn and would next go nip and tuck with Nunn, Barkley. 3-4-5 for JCC would be Camacho, Mayweather, and Lockridge (or maybe Haugen), for Monzon it would be Napoles, Briscoe, and Valdez. Now Napoles stands out as the top name there, except that the fight was at middle weight, and Napoles was a welter weight who never really did anything as a MW (thats why I asked if age and weight matter). The problem for Duran, is most of his best opponents he fought back in the 70s, back before the Four Kings was really a thing, back when he was the greatest lightweight ever. But most people don't look at that with Duran, they look at the 4 Kings era (the same with Hagler to a lesser extent). Regardless, I put Duran's 3-4-5 on roughly the same level as Monzon's and JCCs

[SCtrojansbaby]

Oh absolutely Duran's next top few wins are on par with Chavez and Monzon's. Lets look at them:

Duran's best scalp is SRL, thats tops, better than Cahvez's (Edwin Rosario) or Monzon's (Emile Griffith). Duran's next best victory was against future HOFer Ken Buchanan, who he took the belt from in Buchanan's prime. Buchanan was a very good fighter and he was in his prime when Duran beat him. Monzon's next best scalp would be Benvenutti, who Monzon beat twice at the very end of Benvenutti's career. I put prime Buchanan over old Benvenutti. The next best name for Chavez was Meldrick Taylor, who credit for beating twice, but I wouldn't say he is better than Ken Buchanan.

3-4-5 for Duran I go DeJesus, Palomino and Barkley, and mind you this isn't the old Barkley that stuck around too long, this was just KO'd Hearn and would next go nip and tuck with Nunn, Barkley. 3-4-5 for JCC would be Camacho, Mayweather, and Lockridge (or maybe Haugen), for Monzon it would be Napoles, Briscoe, and Valdez. Now Napoles stands out as the top name there, except that the fight was at middle weight, and Napoles was a welter weight who never really did anything as a MW (thats why I asked if age and weight matter). The problem for Duran, is most of his best opponents he fought back in the 70s, back before the Four Kings was really a thing, back when he was the greatest lightweight ever. But most people don't look at that with Duran, they look at the 4 Kings era (the same with Hagler to a lesser extent). Regardless, I put Duran's 3-4-5 on roughly the same level as Monzon's and JCCs

I think Griffith1, Benevnutti1, Napoles and possibly Benvenutti 2 are better wins than Buchanan to me

I would say Camacho Rosario Taylor & maybe Ramirez are better wins than Buchanan

[DeeMoney]

I think Griffith1, Benevnutti1, Napoles and possibly Benvenutti 2 are better wins than Buchanan to me

I would say Camacho Rosario Taylor & maybe Ramirez are better wins than Buchanan

Dang, really that low on Ken Buchanan?! Oh well, free to disagree on that one, nothing more that can be said but I think differently.