Chasing the Champion - By Harry Wills

[travestyny]

I was wondering why there aren't many quotations from Wills himself, so was seeking out some quotations directly from him and ran into this. Has anyone read it? It was a special for a newspaper - 13 articles written by Wills himself about his life and career, and it's actually really good.

It seems to have been published in 1926...but from the content, it seems that it goes from his time as a child until the Clem Johnson fight in 1922.

Some really cool content about him growing up and taking horses for joy rides when their owners weren't around. He goes into depth on his fights with Langford especially, and a few other fights. Said he actually fought Fred Fulton twice...once when he was calling himself Fred Nelson, and Wills knocked him out in one round. Fulton denies it was him, but he claims it was 100% him. Wills gives Fulton a ton of credit for being "the only White man with something to lose that dared to fight" him.

He talks about plots against him to get him disqualified and how he tried to navigate that. How some bouts, like one with Jeannette, was called a no-decision after a trick by Jeannette's manager. Things like that.

And of course, he mentions Dempsey. One of the funnier things he says about him is, "Dempsey wouldn't fight me if I had both my hands amputated and wore a wooden leg into the ring."

Says he doesn't believe anything about a fear of riots being the reason for the fight not taking place, and he mentions how it wasn't only Dempsey keeping away from him, but also Kearns aiding and abetting, and Muldoon also trying to keep the fight from happening.

It would be too much of a pain in the ass for me to post it all but I guess keep a lookout for it. If there is anything that you might want to know, I can look and see if I find it there and try to post some of it. If you've read this, let me know what you thought. His life really should be made into a movie.

[Bronson66]

I was wondering why there aren't many quotations from Wills himself, so was seeking out some quotations directly from him and ran into this. Has anyone read it? It was a special for a newspaper - 13 articles written by Wills himself about his life and career, and it's actually really good.

It seems to have been published in 1926...but from the content, it seems that it goes from his time as a child until the Clem Johnson fight in 1922.

Some really cool content about him growing up and taking horses for joy rides when their owners weren't around. He goes into depth on his fights with Langford especially, and a few other fights. Said he actually fought Fred Fulton twice...once when he was calling himself Fred Nelson, and Wills knocked him out in one round. Fulton denies it was him, but he claims it was 100% him. Wills gives Fulton a ton of credit for being "the only White man with something to lose that dared to fight" him.

He talks about plots against him to get him disqualified and how he tried to navigate that. How some bouts, like one with Jeannette, was called a no-decision after a trick by Jeannette's manager. Things like that.

And of course, he mentions Dempsey. One of the funnier things he says about him is, "Dempsey wouldn't fight me if I had both my hands amputated and wore a wooden leg into the ring."

Says he doesn't believe anything about a fear of riots being the reason for the fight not taking place, and he mentions how it wasn't only Dempsey keeping away from him, but also Kearns aiding and abetting, and Muldoon also trying to keep the fight from happening.

It would be too much of a pain in the ass for me to post it all but I guess keep a lookout for it. If there is anything that you might want to know, I can look and see if I find it there and try to post some of it. If you've read this, let me know what you thought. His life really should be made into a movie.

For balance.


The Fight Film Collector: "The Trouble with Harry" Harry Wills vs Firpo, Madden, Uzcudun, and Newsreels including Jack Dempsey
Wills undoubtedly deserved a title shot, no argument on that score .

Once established as the leading contender Wills and his manager Paddy Mullins,elected to pursue a strategy of low risk,they justifiably, took the view that Harry had earned his shot and felt that to keep busy feeding on a diet of well chewed meat, was preferable to chancing a loss against the"iron of the division".

Hence no fights with Gibbons,Godfrey,Brennan,Renault,Tunney,Risko.

This was a reasonable attitude to take,but imo it back fired spectacularly on them ,less than impressive wins over ,Weinert,Madden,Fulton,Firpo,gave Dempsey admirers the chance to compare Jack and Harry's respective performances
against the Fulton and Firpo, and Wills victories against the latter two suffered in comparison.

Proposed matches with Gibbons,Godfrey and Tunney were turned down.

In1923 Renault and Godfrey were matched for the 1st time,the promoter intended to put Wills in with the winner,obviously risky for Wills but it would certainly have pushed his claim for a title fight.Renault ko'd Godfrey,but Wills didn't fight him


Wins over the undersized Kid Norfolk,Dempsey's sparring partner Bill Tate,on the way out Jeff Clark,fat and aging Sam Langford,totally shot GunBoat Smith,and a fake fight with Sam McVey did not set the boxing world alight.

Fulton had been destroyed in under a minute by Dempsey , a far better conditioned Firpo had lasted just 2 rds with Jack.

Harry's lack lustre dec win over the out of shape Firpo did nothing for Wills rep and the general feeling was it had rather exposed his shortcomings.

To make it clear Wills should have gotten his shot,but sitting on his ranking and taking no chances ultimately did him no favours.

Decades later Roland Lastarza adopted a similar strategy parlaying a close decision loss against Marciano into a title shot without really meriting one,but times had changed and Rollie was White.

[Marchegiano]

Were any of the color line champions consistent?


Because, the whole race riot deal. I don't hardly speak to it because it seems a silly response to me.


Even John L had to put on a show like he was willing to fight a black man. But race riots might happened doe doesn't make any sense.


Corbett had to put on a show like he's willing to risk a loss to a black man to help build his name then immediately and outright said he was not willing to risk losing a title to a black man

Fitzs I don't really think there's a black fighter that applies. You know, like how folks try to pretend other champions got it. Fitzs is the only one whose Wills analog doesn't ever pop up in any convo.

Jeffries was like a Corbett repeat

Hart's like a blink, I guess he and Burns it could be claimed Johnson and such

Johnson has Langford

Willard, TBF, I don't hardly ever hear about who he should have fought. Willard defense seems too focused on justifying his station period and mainstream focus is happy to skip him entirely. Stuck between two Jacks at he is. I don't have a name off the cuff. Langford, Jeanette, McVey, sure, but nothing to add.

We're already to the actual Wills no analog needed.





The question becomes if fighting a black man might maybe cause riots, maybe, then why'd all these dudes fight black men or pretend like they would? If there's so much pressure to not fight black men where's the pressure to fight them come from? It's always seemed a weak and silly excuse to me.





Also, read that article, I'd rate it trash propaganda. Tex signed Wills then went and had a fight with the commission then went and manufactured the well known hypejob that was Fripo and all of this is somehow an excuse for Dempsey to duck Wills. ... ... ... not more evidence Dempsey ducked Wills.

Wouldn't be that big of an issue if I didn't just roll through some primaries covering the padding and Tex's attempt at repeating through Paulino.


The promoter put on a show like Dempsey might fight Wills. Went out of his way to make sure that doesn't happen, and while he lead the public on with the Wills fight he padded up a hypejob so that when the public got frustrated he had an alternative that would shut them up. Tried to do the same for Tunney but Godfrey got in the way and Tunney pulled the color line. No bull about business.

[travestyny]

For balance.


The Fight Film Collector: "The Trouble with Harry" Harry Wills vs Firpo, Madden, Uzcudun, and Newsreels including Jack Dempsey
Wills undoubtedly deserved a title shot, no argument on that score .

Once established as the leading contender Wills and his manager Paddy Mullins,elected to pursue a strategy of low risk,they justifiably, took the view that Harry had earned his shot and felt that to keep busy feeding on a diet of well chewed meat, was preferable to chancing a loss against the"iron of the division".

Hence no fights with Gibbons,Godfrey,Brennan,Renault,Tunney,Risko.

This was a reasonable attitude to take,but imo it back fired spectacularly on them ,less than impressive wins over ,Weinert,Madden,Fulton,Firpo,gave Dempsey admirers the chance to compare Jack and Harry's respective performances
against the Fulton and Firpo, and Wills victories against the latter two suffered in comparison.

Proposed matches with Gibbons,Godfrey and Tunney were turned down.

In1923 Renault and Godfrey were matched for the 1st time,the promoter intended to put Wills in with the winner,obviously risky for Wills but it would certainly have pushed his claim for a title fight.Renault ko'd Godfrey,but Wills didn't fight him


Wins over the undersized Kid Norfolk,Dempsey's sparring partner Bill Tate,on the way out Jeff Clark,fat and aging Sam Langford,totally shot GunBoat Smith,and a fake fight with Sam McVey did not set the boxing world alight.

Fulton had been destroyed in under a minute by Dempsey , a far better conditioned Firpo had lasted just 2 rds with Jack.

Harry's lack lustre dec win over the out of shape Firpo did nothing for Wills rep and the general feeling was it had rather exposed his shortcomings.

To make it clear Wills should have gotten his shot,but sitting on his ranking and taking no chances ultimately did him no favours.

Decades later Roland Lastarza adopted a similar strategy parlaying a close decision loss against Marciano into a title shot without really meriting one,but times had changed and Rollie was White.

Wills, in the articles I mentioned, claims that Tunney wouldn't fight him.

"They have tried to build up Tunney, a likable fellow and a fair fighter, as a real challenger, but they have known all the while that Tunney would last with me hardly through one round of toe-to-toe going. Tunney knows this and Tunney doesn't want any of my game either. It is not cowardice that keeps Tunney away from me -- It is common sense."

It seems to me that Wills offered Tunney a fight and Tunney turned it down. His team claimed that they couldn't get enough money from the venue, but since Wills was the #1 challenger for the title, you'd think they would have taken it. Of course it turns out they didn't have to because he leapfrogged over Wills anyway after Dempsey broke the contract to fight Wills.

I'm not sure what shape Firpo was in for Wills, but I know DeForest said clearly that he wasn't ready for Dempsey at that time in his career. He fought Wills a good while after that, didn't he? A year later, I believe.


Honestly, I'm not buying that the fights Wills took were the reason he wasn't chosen. He was well known to be the #1 challenger since '22 and the fight the people wanted.


He may have mentioned something about the McVey fight. I'll see if I can locate it.

[travestyny]

a fake fight with Sam McVey did not set the boxing world alight.

Here's his story about the McVey fight you are referring to. Seems like Jack Kearns had something to do with this, according to him. It's clear that Kearns would do anything to keep Dempsey away from Wills.



Not long after that I boxed Sam McVey over In Philadelphia. I had knocked him out twice In bouts in Panama and had outpointed him a number of times. He was getting old and was no longer any match for me so he went In there with no other idea than to stick the eight rounds.

Sam was a big, strong fellow, and an artist at holding. He dra-ped himself around my neck and hung on like a movie vamp. He wouldn't let go and I couldn't do a thing under the rules, or I would have stopped his holding In a hurry.

KEARNS'S ITALIAN HAND.

Finally In trying to pull away from him, McVey fell through the ropes. The referee stopped It then, and announced that he had disqualified McVey for holding. Naturally the crowd was sore because It was such a bad fight and hollered murder. Jack Kearns set his press agent to work and next day they changed the decision of the referee to a "no contest".

That made me share In the blame although It was no fault of mine that McVey would not fight. It also cost me my share of the purse, for they refused to pay me. Several newspapers were conducting a mild crusade for a Dempsey-Wllls match at the time and this affair hurt me a great deal, which was the Intention of those who had engineered the whole thing.


Might be some truth to it....
If the fight couldn't be made due to politics and potential race riots, why would Dempsey's team try so hard to sabotage it?

X9eyBO.png

[Bronson66]

Here's his story about the McVey fight you are referring to. Seems like Jack Kearns had something to do with this, according to him. It's clear that Kearns would do anything to keep Dempsey away from Wills.



Not long after that I boxed Sam McVey over In Philadelphia. I had knocked him out twice In bouts in Panama and had outpointed him a number of times. He was getting old and was no longer any match for me so he went In there with no other idea than to stick the eight rounds.

Sam was a big, strong fellow, and an artist at holding. He dra-ped himself around my neck and hung on like a movie vamp. He wouldn't let go and I couldn't do a thing under the rules, or I would have stopped his holding In a hurry.

KEARNS'S ITALIAN HAND.

Finally In trying to pull away from him, McVey fell through the ropes. The referee stopped It then, and announced that he had disqualified McVey for holding. Naturally the crowd was sore because It was such a bad fight and hollered murder. Jack Kearns set his press agent to work and next day they changed the decision of the referee to a "no contest".

That made me share In the blame although It was no fault of mine that McVey would not fight. It also cost me my share of the purse, for they refused to pay me. Several newspapers were conducting a mild crusade for a Dempsey-Wllls match at the time and this affair hurt me a great deal, which was the Intention of those who had engineered the whole thing.


Might be some truth to it....
If the fight couldn't be made due to politics and potential race riots, why would Dempsey's team try so hard to sabotage it?

X9eyBO.png

Wills is not telling the truth about the Panama fights with McVey,he did not ko McVey in either fight.

[Bronson66]

Wills is not telling the truth about the Panama fights with McVey,he did not ko McVey in either fight.

Wills was involved in several stinkers he and his opponents had their purses withheld in 3 fights.and Wills was slung out in one contest.two of his opponents were barred for non effort and two of his fights with Langford were pantomime fights.

Did Kearns have anything to do with these poor performances?

Some of his wins.
Denver Ed Martin was 40.
Pete Everett was 41.
Joe Jeannette was 40.
Sam McVey last fight 36.

[travestyny]

Wills is not telling the truth about the Panama fights with McVey,he did not ko McVey in either fight.

Boxrec has one of those fights listed as a KO for Wills. Says McVey claimed it was a foul but the referee didn't buy it.

[travestyny]

Wills was involved in several stinkers he and his opponents had their purses withheld in 3 fights.and Wills was slung out in one contest.two of his opponents were barred for non effort and two of his fights with Langford were pantomime fights.

Did Kearns have anything to do with these poor performances?

Some of his wins.
Denver Ed Martin was 40.
Pete Everett was 41.
Joe Jeannette was 40.
Sam McVey last fight 36.

From his perspective, he claims there were a good amount of referees who were looking for a reason to disqualify him, such that sometimes he would hold back working inside because he didn't want to give them an excuse. For example, during one of the Tate fights he says he was accused of it being fake by the ref very early in the bout -- before he knocked Tate out and threw the knockout in the ref's face asking him if he still thought it was a fake. He also gave at least one example of a guy he was, according to him, beating up pretty badly but the guy lasted the entire fight. I think it was the Clem Johnson fight. When he saw him later and asked why he stayed in there to take such a beating, Johnson said he was paid extra money to go the distance by someone who wanted to diminish Wills' reputation. I'm not saying everything is accurate, but just giving his perspective from what I've read thus far.

He acknowledged when he thought Langford and McVea were on the older side and no longer much of a match for him, so I think he'd be honest about the age and ability of his opponents. But he has the biggest respect for Langford. Claims he fought him about 18 times. I don't think Langford was over the hill for all of them.

[Bronson66]

From his perspective, he claims there were a good amount of referees who were looking for a reason to disqualify him, such that sometimes he would hold back working inside because he didn't want to give them an excuse. For example, during one of the Tate fights he says he was accused of it being fake by the ref very early in the bout -- before he knocked Tate out and threw the knockout in the ref's face asking him if he still thought it was a fake. He also gave at least one example of a guy he was, according to him, beating up pretty badly but the guy lasted the entire fight. I think it was the Clem Johnson fight. When he saw him later and asked why he stayed in there to take such a beating, Johnson said he was paid extra money to go the distance by someone who wanted to diminish Wills' reputation. I'm not saying everything is accurate, but just giving his perspective from what I've read thus far.

He acknowledged when he thought Langford and McVea were on the older side and no longer much of a match for him, so I think he'd be honest about the age and ability of his opponents. But he has the biggest respect for Langford. Claims he fought him about 18 times. I don't think Langford was over the hill for all of them.

Firpo sacked his trainer and put on 8 and a half pounds between the Dempsey and Wills fights. Wills claimed he stopped McVey in both their Panama fights ,he didnt stop him in either,that isn't personal perspective ,it's outright lying.