Rating Rocky Marciano's resume

[Dr Z]

Excellent point / counterpoint discussion. I commend the thinking, the statistical research, and above all, the civil tone under which this dialog has been conducted.

(As though my thoughts on the subject matter any).

Certainly, the diminutive size of Marciano always comes into play when his merits are lightboarded against other heavyweight sovereigns, as it must.
The dearth of great contenders under 30 years of age and over 200 pounds of fighting weight during The Rock's tenure may have contributed to his success, surely; but nevertheless, in very real terms; the concept that anyone ever would be even capable of defeating Marciano under professional distance rules remains STRICTLY theoretical.
A distinction among Heavyweight Champions who have completed their careers; that Rocky Marciano alone enjoys.

Rocky pretty much fought the best out there as champ. Missing out maybe on N. Valdes. He wasn't small for his time. IMO his heart, stamina, power, and then his chin ..in that order made him great.

[BKM-]

Rocky pretty much fought the best out there as champ. Missing out maybe on N. Valdes. He wasn't small for his time.

Could it be the smallest HW era of the 20th century? I don't know if we got stats on that.

[billeau2]

All salient points B.I think Marciano beats,the Sharkey's ,Baer's,Schmeling's,Patterson's,Johansson's, Leon Spinks,and I would probably,slightly favour him to beat Frazier,based on his advantage of two handed power,but Frazier was quicker ,and bigger,and had a heart as big as Rocky,and though his face puffed up he didn't bleed much.
Engines? How would Rocky do against younger prime versions of Walcott, and Charles? I think we can assume given the outcomes of their fights,that they would be even tougher wars for him to come through

Exactly (the bolded). Fighters of that time were well conditioned. Despite this father time takes a lot of that away. Marciano never had the opportunity to fight without his youth and peak conditioning and he relied upon it.

Joe was also interesting. He managed to fight as a one handed fighter at a time when guys were savy enough to stay away from single handed punchers. James Braddock could not make any headway as a prime fighter until he almost aged out during the depression and was forced to develop his other hand working as a stevedore on the docks. Presumably as a one handed fighter guys figured him out, yet when he came back with two guns he managed to beat some of the more workman like fighters in the division, to get his opportunity against Bauer.

meanwhile Frazier managed to thrive despite his obvious attack with the Left Hook. Go figure!

[billeau2]

Do everyone a favour and kill yourself.

His liver will be here long after we are all gone... Pickled through a life of rat gut distilled everclear!

[Anomalocaris]

To address your points B,Tyson was around 30lbs heavier than Marciano,and it was all muscle, the tale of the tape also shows Tyson had a much bigger upper body,arms,neck,chest,all being appreciably bigger, he also had 3 inches of reach on Rocky,had a better defence,better resistance to cuts ,he was quicker into range, and his hands were much,much faster.
Tyson stops Marciano inside 8 rds imo too fast,he had every advantage.

Coming straight at Liston is kamikaze,if he could pick any style to fight, a short armed, slow of foot ,185lbs cut prone fighter,fits the template .
Marciano does not beat Sonny,he gets busted up at range, tied up and manhandled inside, and Liston had a good uppercut ,the perfect antidote for the short croucher.Marciano can't box with Liston, and he can't win a punching shoot out.imo

Wlad would spear Marciano with his 81 in reach, and d**** himself all over him inside, Rocky would be giving away 60lbs ,and I defy anyone to tell me he hit harder than Wlad.

This isn't fat HumphreyJackson 4-3-0, having his last fight against Rocky this is a fine boxer, a sculpted athlete who even past 40 gave AJ all he wanted ,a champion who hits like a truck with either hand.Slipping the jab?Rocky couldn't avoid ancient Joe Louis' jab," I just had to take them",what would Wlad's do to his tender skin?

Since the 60's,how many 185lbs heavyweights have been successful fighting modern sized heavies?

We have no proof that Rocky could not hang with those larger guys,but likewise ,we have no proof that he could.

I would give Dempsey a better chance against the big boys,because he was more elusive and quicker into range and with his handspeed,to me Dempsey was a better version of Marciano,and when Marciano was champion he was seen as a poorer facsimile of Jack.

The fact that every single small heavyweight aspirant has added bulk to compete with the bigger guys implies that it is necessary to add that weight to be successful.

The difference being these guys,Ellis , Byrd ,Holyfield,Moorer,Spinks Haye ,Uysk were not short, and both their hand and foot speed was not," poor to average." They had the necessary height to absorb and carry the extra poundage,they were also all better boxers than Rocky.

I hope nobody will say Marciano was ever quick of either hand or foot,and any attempt to bulk him up would adversely affect both his speed and stamina,imo.

For the record,though I think Marciano should have defended against Valdes, I place no blame for that fight not happening on Rocky,and if it had happened I think Marciano would have won.
To some extent Archie Moore acted as Rocky's unintentional "policeman",knocking off the likes of.Henry,Baker,Valdes.

Fights against those three might have told us a bit more about Marciano, defences against Lastarza and ****ell told us nothing imo .I would also sooner have seen Rocky against the likes of Walls and Satterfield.

For me Rocky DOES lose because he is simply too small,but not only that, he is outskilled,and at least matched for power.

This is a superb post and for the record I think Marciano's ultimate nightmare is Sonny Liston.

Just that telegraph pole of a jab would have utterly pulverised poor Rocky, let alone the rest of Old Stoneface's brutal arsenal.

[Mr Mitts]

Do everyone a favour and kill yourself.

He doesn't have the manners to.

[billeau2]

He doesn't have the manners to.

The rude btard! Ohhh no Gas is just too expensive for Queenie boy! The nerve

[billeau2]

This is a superb post and for the record I think Marciano's ultimate nightmare is Sonny Liston.

Just that telegraph pole of a jab would have utterly pulverised poor Rocky, let alone the rest of Old Stoneface's brutal arsenal.

Well... I think it would have been possible for them to fight (I could be off a few years). Marciano was crazy disciplined and stayed in a perpetual crouch, Liston could make adjustments in the ring and even change the pole ax jab to a quicker flickering jab. It's hard to either: Bet against Marciano, or, imagine him beating Liston!

[QueensburyRules]

- - Well, Apples does supply good comedy, but Field lost...a lot and hung on too long because he weren't bright enough to hang on to his earnings.

No comparison is needed, just da facts, ma'am...

- - YupSir, just da facts...

[Dr Z]

Could it be the smallest HW era of the 20th century? I don't know if we got stats on that.

Yes we do, an not he is not the smallest. For example, Tommy Burns is 5'7" tall and fought 168 pounds when he meet Jack Johnson. Short & light.