Can USA boxing upper weight boxing be fixed?

[Willie Pep 229]

No, I am arguing that graduation rates amongst pro athletes are irrelevant to this discussion.

The original point was getting those athletes who wont make it to the pros in their league to do boxing instead. Focusing on graduation rates in the NFL and NBA is focusing on the subset we are not trying to recruit. Its irrelevant

Well it's not irrelevant. Would not the same circumstances apply once college boxing becomes a feeder pattern to professional prize fighting? I.e. Students leaving early.

[Willie Pep 229]

No, I am arguing that graduation rates amongst pro athletes are irrelevant to this discussion.

The original point was getting those athletes who wont make it to the pros in their league to do boxing instead. Focusing on graduation rates in the NFL and NBA is focusing on the subset we are not trying to recruit. Its irrelevant

I need to expose my real intent here.

I want all high school varsity sport to end. I want it to be mandatory that EVERY student participate in intramural sport after school as part of their graduation requirement.

All the building of 'boys to men' that is gained from varsity sport, character, conditioning, ETC can be gained for ALL students through (the much less expensive) intramural sport.

We cater to 10% of our students with varsity sport while 90% of our students are in poor condition at a young age.

Varsity sport is a misplacement of funding.

My public tax dollars should not be wasted on providing funding for scholar athletes. They are not important to America; public high schools should not be expected to serve as a feeder to college athletics. That's not why I pay my taxes.

You cost too much and give to too few.

[DeeMoney]

Well it's not irrelevant. Would not the same circumstances apply once college boxing becomes a feeder pattern to professional prize fighting? I.e. Students leaving early.

But thats not something I was arguing against. I am saying that right now they have NIL, you cant just ask them to give that up for college boxing that doesnt have that. You are asking them to give up a scholarship for one that is non existent (no scholarships in boxing right now).

I am pointing out all the speed bumps that exist. Your presenting a pie in sky world where there is college boxing, it offers scholarships, over comes title IX issues, somehow is profitable (which most college sports arent). Yet, despite this profitability has to poach athletes from within its own university.

Less than 1% off college football players make it to the NFL, but 91% of D1 football players earn a degree. You are arguing that they should give up their scholarship in football (which they would need to because boxing doesnt have scholarships). Pay for their own education, give up thousands in NIL money, for a 1% chance to make it as a boxer. As opposed to the over 90% chance if having a degree?

[DeeMoney]

I need to expose my real intent here.

I want all high school varsity sport to end. I want it to be mandatory that EVERY student participate in intramural sport after school as part of their graduation requirement.

All the building of 'boys to men' that is gained from varsity sport, character, conditioning, ETC can be gained for ALL students through (the much less expensive) intramural sport.

We cater to 10% of our students with varsity sport while 90% of our students are in poor condition at a young age.

Varsity sport is a misplacement of funding.

My public tax dollars should not be wasted on providing funding for scholar athletes. They are not important to America; public high schools should not be expected to serve as a feeder to college athletics. That's not why I pay my taxes.

You cost too much and give to too few.

I get that, but would you also cut band, theater, art? What about things such as student council? Should we just be the core classes, legit question-not loaded?

That being written, the last school I worked at as an assistant AD, athletics were darn near self sufficient- fundraising and fees handled over 60% of the budget.

[Willie Pep 229]

I get that, but would you also cut band, theater, art? What about things such as student council? Should we just be the core classes, legit question-not loaded?

That being written, the last school I worked at as an assistant AD, athletics were darn near self sufficient- fundraising and fees handled over 60% of the budget.

I don't want to push this any further.

I'll say only two things.

Thay sold donuts everyday.

1. The students surrived on the sugar.
2. The administration said no food in classrooms.
3. The administration said no kids stand in the hall after the bell.
4. They sold donuts between every period.
5. At least a half dozen kids tried to enter the classroom holdig donuts.

So the kid stands in the hall because he can't bring food into classroom but the admin yells ar ME saying the kid can't stand in the hall and be tardy.

I point out the duplicity of ot all and some guy like you comes along and says "But we finance the athlete program with donuts sales. Why won't you cooperate?"

Next I'll tell you how college recruiters (agents) would donate money to out sports booster club and then how the money got distributed to athletes' parents!

We almost got caught on that one, when there was a scandal involving an agent that was feeding money to high school prospects. (A decade ago). The player/student eventually ended up with Miami and then the Jets I believe it got him a multi-million dollar contract.

The other kids got fat on the donuts.

[Willie Pep 229]

But thats not something I was arguing against. I am saying that right now they have NIL, you cant just ask them to give that up for college boxing that doesnt have that. You are asking them to give up a scholarship for one that is non existent (no scholarships in boxing right now).

I am pointing out all the speed bumps that exist. Your presenting a pie in sky world where there is college boxing, it offers scholarships, over comes title IX issues, somehow is profitable (which most college sports arent). Yet, despite this profitability has to poach athletes from within its own university.

Less than 1% off college football players make it to the NFL, but 91% of D1 football players earn a degree. You are arguing that they should give up their scholarship in football (which they would need to because boxing doesnt have scholarships). Pay for their own education, give up thousands in NIL money, for a 1% chance to make it as a boxer. As opposed to the over 90% chance if having a degree?

I am not offering 'pies in the sky' - I want all college varsity sports ban as well.

Only private colleges should waste their money on that nonsense.

Ever notice how you guys say that universities pay for themselves with ticket sales and TV appearance money. But the college never share that money back to the tax payer who guarantees their sport will exist.

College sport is a con game. Socialized sport with the government flipping the cost bill but with the college keeping all the profits.

Nice deal, if you can con the populace into accepting it.

What happens with a school that doesn't make a profit? It still gets financed the next year with my tax dollars.

College ball is socialized entertainment where the tax payer gurantees the product and the colleges keep all the money, and then pay a coach a million dollars a year.

What a con.

[DeeMoney]

I don't want to push this any further.

I'll say only two things.

Thay sold donuts everyday.

1. The students surrived on the sugar.
2. The administration said no food in classrooms.
3. The administration said no kids stand in the hall after the bell.
4. They sold donuts between every period.
5. At least a half dozen kids tried to enter the classroom holdig donuts.

So the kid stands in the hall because he can't bring food into classroom but the admin yells ar ME saying the kid can't stand in the hall and be tardy.

I point out the duplicity of ot all and some guy like you comes along and says "But we finance the athlete program with donuts sales. Why won't you cooperate?"

Next I'll tell you how college recruiters (agents) would donate money to out sports booster club and then how the money got distributed to athletes' parents!

We almost got caught on that one, when there was a scandal involving an agent that was feeding money to high school prospects. (A decade ago). The player/student eventually ended up with Miami and then the Jets I believe it got him a multi-million dollar contract.

The other kids got fat on the donuts.

First off, you're gonna slow down with the "guys like you" nonsense. You had a bad admin, I am sorry for that, but you don't know me so don't start projecting straw man arguments on to me based on your issues. I was just stating facts using numbers to back them. I really am sorry that your admin screwed you over, trust me I have been there. You were at a scum bag school that did shady things. But don't start pushing that on to me; that don't play.

As to the 'pie in the sky' part, that is in reference to arguing for collegiate boxing, which was the initial point of discussion. For you to now argue that you don't want any collegiate sports is fine, but counter to the initial points.

As to not having athletics attached to schools (both collegiate and high school), you can make an argument for that, its fair to argue that tax payer money shouldnt have to subsidize that. All I asked is would you do the same for the arts, and for other programs that are not directly related to core classes? Fair question, not trying to pull a gotcha on it, just furthering the discussion.

As for it being a con, well, that most colleges now. My son's college mandates that all freshmen live on campus, they cite studies that it improves the student experience, they then charge quadruple tuition to live on campus, and cram multiple students into a room smaller than my bedroom. He could rent a one bedroom just down the road for half the price, but the school mandates otherwise. They require him to buy a food card which can only be used on campus, and then jack up the prices ($10 for a bottle of water). The government subsidizes loans, this just leads to colleges raising tuition and raking in more money (this is a state school mind you). Point being, lots of higher education is a scam that bilks the tax payers.

Now I'd love to continue this discussion, but if we are gonna do so, its going to be like grown men. Cut the name calling and projecting.

[Willie Pep 229]

First off, you're gonna slow down with the "guys like you" nonsense. You had a bad admin, I am sorry for that, but you don't know me so don't start projecting straw man arguments on to me based on your issues. I was just stating facts using numbers to back them. I really am sorry that your admin screwed you over, trust me I have been there. You were at a scum bag school that did shady things. But don't start pushing that on to me; that don't play.

As to the 'pie in the sky' part, that is in reference to arguing for collegiate boxing, which was the initial point of discussion. For you to now argue that you don't want any collegiate sports is fine, but counter to the initial points.

As to not having athletics attached to schools (both collegiate and high school), you can make an argument for that, its fair to argue that tax payer money shouldnt have to subsidize that. All I asked is would you do the same for the arts, and for other programs that are not directly related to core classes? Fair question, not trying to pull a gotcha on it, just furthering the discussion.

As for it being a con, well, that most colleges now. My son's college mandates that all freshmen live on campus, they cite studies that it improves the student experience, they then charge quadruple tuition to live on campus, and cram multiple students into a room smaller than my bedroom. He could rent a one bedroom just down the road for half the price, but the school mandates otherwise. They require him to buy a food card which can only be used on campus, and then jack up the prices ($10 for a bottle of water). The government subsidizes loans, this just leads to colleges raising tuition and raking in more money (this is a state school mind you). Point being, lots of higher education is a scam that bilks the tax payers.

Now I'd love to continue this discussion, but if we are gonna do so, its going to be like grown men. Cut the name calling and projecting.

Don't see it as name calling. It was not meant to be personal. I was playing it as academics vs. Sport. With each of us acting as a representative of that group.

Nothing personal about it. Really!

I give all coaches the same crap. Then we order another beer. It is just classic classroom teacher vs. coachs bantering.

And ongoing debate; but we all got along.

I will endeavor to stay more generic in future.

[DeeMoney]

Don't see it as name calling. It was not meant to be personal. I was playing it as academics vs. Sport. With each of us acting as a representative of that group.

Nothing personal about it. Really!

I give all coaches the same crap. Then we order another beer. It is just classic classroom teacher vs. coachs bantering.

And ongoing debate; but we all got along.

I will endeavor to stay more generic in future.

No sweat, Im probably just being overly sensitive (long date night and drinking with the wife for the Benavidez Morrel fight).

I agree, HS sports and college sports is shady, and there should be a limit to the subsidies. But most big time college recognize that big time sports leads to an increase in enrollment, and a bigger spotlight of the schools (which president like). So its good that we have title IX in place to somewhat keep things in line through gender equity.

Circling back to boxing though, thats one reason why NCAA boxing will struggle to grow big. You'd have to offer it both male & female (or eliminate an already existing male sport). And even then it would cost money.

[Willie Pep 229]

You know . . .

I could go into a wrestling tournament/round robin event and wrestle five times in a long day.

I could get beat in all five of those matches and at the end of the day I could say, "Boy that s-ucked."

I could fight in one three round amateur Golden Gloves event. I can win that fight and spend the rest of the night with a cold compress on the back of neck fighting off the headache. (Did I mention I won the fight.)

I am not sure we really want this in our colleges.