The Harry Greb agenda?

[them_apples]

Who is they? Is it . . .

. . . Tex Rickard, Floyd Fitzsimmons, Joe Freeze, NYSAC, NBA, that Pittsburgh promoter who couldn't fund more than 100K, or maybe Tex McGovern, Billy Gibson, Jack Curley, or Jim Brady?

Are you suggesting there are other men, bankers maybe, who actually secretly controlled boxing and could dictate who fought whom? Come on!

it's . . .


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Who in your mind had the power to stop any of the men mentioned above, if the money was there to be made?

Who are 'these powers to be' you speak of?

There never was any offer made for a Greb-Dempsey fight other than one made in fall 1922, for 100K, from a pittsburgh promoter, who wanted to stage the fight in Pittsburgh. He was 200K below Kearns' asking price and was only offering Pittsburgh.

The fight was never viable. The crowd wasn't interested enough.

The men you listed are the most important.

but yea beyond that bankers. If you follow the money it will always end up at bankers and the trail of bankers will lead to a central bank.

I don't think it's fair to say the interest isn't there, when the interest was built by the promoters themselves. There was no large networks of the day or any competition to give the impression of anyone else naturally building a following - everything was purely built from the ground up. Boxing in Grebs day was closer to that of a tradesmen who gained fans from the cities he visited in and the only way for him to get that shot would have been by strolling into Dempseys camp, sparring him and hoping someone with access to huge funds picked him up. In the meantime he fought as much as he could for as much money as he could.

[Marchegiano]

That whole entire period is still marred in propaganda that modern fans refuse to acknowledge because the transitive of it would mean Greb, Dempsey, and Tunney take a legacy hit.

To the point where talking about the corruption of a promotional magazine is somehow controversial and not the point of the existence of the magazine.

Greb is terribly overrated when compared to Langford, but oh well, some olde timey whites did that a long time ago and there's nothing anyone can do about it. We're forced to just repeat the same **** they said and if anyone ever makes any solid points we just say well you didn't see them and these jabronis did like as if that washes away the biases of these men or their time.
​

There is a certain esoteric virtue signal that you get when you claim that Harry Greb is your GOAT. I mean, nobody ever saw him fight, so if you rank him as your p4p goat then you must be well versed in boxing history and well studied (or at least you can pose as such).

Its akin to when a hipster is asked who their favorite band is, and they can respond, "youve never heard of them."

Dead on.

[Bronson66]

That whole entire period is still marred in propaganda that modern fans refuse to acknowledge because the transitive of it would mean Greb, Dempsey, and Tunney take a legacy hit.

To the point where talking about the corruption of a promotional ****zine is somehow controversial and not the point of the existence of the ****zine.

Greb is terribly overrated when compared to Langford, but oh well, some olde timey whites did that a long time ago and there's nothing anyone can do about it. We're forced to just repeat the same **** they said and if anyone ever makes any solid points we just say well you didn't see them and these jabronis did like as if that washes away the biases of these men or their time.
â






Dead on.

Greb beat
T Gibbons
M Gibbons
Tunney
Wilson
Flowers
Walker
Rosenbloom
McGoorty
Ratner
McCoy
GunBoat Smith
Jeff Smith
Norfolk
Dillon
Chip
Mantell
Bartfield
Renault
Levinsky
Weinert
Downey
Rojas
Loughran
Meehan
Miske
McTigue
Brennan
Bogash
Madden
Crouse

That's as good a resume as anyone outside of Ali has imo.
If he is terribly overated, then they must all be too!

[QueensburyRules]

the richest men who made the events happen. the ones the banks know by their first name. The ones who get loans. Money is created in a bank and is collected at a bank. no argument here

- - Every hvy worth anything was preening for a Dempsey fight. Must be a couple of dozen in Greb category and hundreds just wanting a lucrative fight.

[them_apples]

Greb beat
T Gibbons
M Gibbons
Tunney
Wilson
Flowers
Walker
Rosenbloom
McGoorty
Ratner
McCoy
GunBoat Smith
Jeff Smith
Norfolk
Dillon
Chip
Mantell
Bartfield
Renault
Levinsky
Weinert
Downey
Rojas
Loughran
Meehan
Miske
McTigue
Brennan
Bogash
Madden
Crouse

That's as good a resume as anyone outside of Ali has imo.
If he is terribly overated, then they must all be too!

there is actually nothing overated about Greb at all

Unbelievable is a better word. If we go by who he beat and how he did it - he is incredible. Was it all true is the better question - but it all DOES seem to be true. It's almost like people pick and stance and refuse to budge.

Also - Ali's record is pales in comparison to this. IMO

Grebs closest competition is Langford

[billeau2]

It is what it is, as the kids say these days... No ranking system is totally objective. The fact that we do not see tape of g r e b is not the absence of his talent, It just presents a problem in evaluating that talent compared to fighters we have tape of.

This is a surprising important point. You can look at the one fight we have of Charlie Burley and see how good he was.

So we see the evidence of his greatness in the other ways that is self-evident. On any given day there are a handful fighters who are legendary and langford along with greb happened to be two of them.

[cfang]

Great post

The detailed descriptions of how he fought are also very impressive. They had no film so they were good at it. All of them align with eachother. He didnâÂÂt box - he had his own style entirely made up and gave you no room
to breath. Every second of every round he was punching - and he achieved this by not just hitting point scoring areas but arms as well. It allowed him to punch constantly like he was hitting a heavy bag. He would move while he did this - confusing and overwhelming everyone he fought. Many would assume he would tire - but he trained in such a way as if it was a dance routine. There wasnâÂÂt any time for the opponent to time him or figure him out. In many articles he would pretend to tire in rounds 10-12 and come out in the later rounds faster and harder than at any point in the fight - this is how he took out kid Norfolk. He seemed like a deadly fighter that was obsessed with fighting.

[billeau2]

there is actually nothing overated about Greb at all

Unbelievable is a better word. If we go by who he beat and how he did it - he is incredible. Was it all true is the better question - but it all DOES seem to be true. It's almost like people pick and stance and refuse to budge.

Also - Ali's record is pales in comparison to this. IMO

Grebs closest competition is Langford

Ali being a heavyweight, to be even considered on the basis of fellow ATGs fought, is an incredible compliment to Ali.

Armstrong, Robinson and Greb among a select few really managed to fight boxing royalty! Langford as well... It is hard to picture how Greb managed lol... Then you watch Robinson, and even Burley in the ring (How did Charlie manage to twice make Archie Moore look so bad?) and you kind of say Ohh... I get it! lol.

[them_apples]

Ali being a heavyweight, to be even considered on the basis of fellow ATGs fought, is an incredible compliment to Ali.

Armstrong, Robinson and Greb among a select few really managed to fight boxing royalty! Langford as well... It is hard to picture how Greb managed lol... Then you watch Robinson, and even Burley in the ring (How did Charlie manage to twice make Archie Moore look so bad?) and you kind of say Ohh... I get it! lol.

I'll word it as to not instill a flame war

I think it's because some fighters are very good but simply never got on the big screen. and you see it more the farther back you go - because the big film stage was more a novelty.

Grebs record, and Langfords record etc are products of fighters from the newspaper era where you were a fighter by trade and you fought as much as you could to stay active and learn the craft. It could be likened to any other trade of the day only you chose fighting.

Once the big screen became a thing, it wasn't long before boxing capitalized on this for money purposes. and not long after they were crunching numbers on what makes the most money. Builds ups, match ups and the whole deal. It's unfortunate for competition purposes but it also grew the sports popularity in some ways.

It makes perfect sense to me because before this you saw much deeper resumes, more losses from constant fighting and less ducking because it didn't matter. I am not 100p certain this is why but from my observation it seems so.

[QueensburyRules]

It is what it is, as the kids say these days... No ranking system is totally objective. The fact that we do not see tape of g r e b is not the absence of his talent, It just presents a problem in evaluating that talent compared to fighters we have tape of.

This is a surprising important point. You can look at the one fight we have of Charlie Burley and see how good he was.

So we see the evidence of his greatness in the other ways that is self-evident. On any given day there are a handful fighters who are legendary and langford along with greb happened to be two of them.

- - Like I like to say, I've seen every Ali fight which is the main reason I rate him notches below many hvy's ranked under him based On ABRO ratings where when they updated their rankings he finally passed Joe Louis who could never lose to Leon or Norton or Jimmy Young in one of Ali's most pitiable performances.

Greb with one of the top 5 records in the world is good enough for me with most top 5s are almost always beyond our understanding how they could ever have been created...