Life Expectancy—Heavyweight Champions

[Kid Cauliflower]

I like statistics anyway and had already been reading the graphs when I ran into this:

https://www.*************.com/thread...mpions.364340/

And if you put it together with this things get more interesting:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ates-all-time/

I won't say more until you have time to view the documents in case no one is too interested. Some of you have probably already seen the first one, since it does come from a boxing forum.

Whoops! The first link does not work so I resorted cut and paste. He goes.

Sullivan died at 59.
Corbett died at 66.
Fitzsimmons died at 54.

Average: 59.6.

Then there was a pocket of overall longevity:
Jeffries was 77 going on 78 at his death.
Marvin Hart died at 55.
Tommy Burns was 73, nearly 74.
Jess Willard died at 86, nearly 87.
Jack Dempsey died at 87, nearly 88.
Gene Tunney died at 81.
Max Schmeling lived to 99.
Jack Sharkey lived to age 91.

Average for this group: 81.

Thereafter, it appears that most champions, on the whole, are living shorter lives:

Primo Carnera died at 61.
Max Baer died at 50.
Jim Braddock died at age 69.
Joe Louis died at 66, nearly 67.
Ezzard Charles died at 53, nearly 54, of ALS.
Joe Walcott, the lone anomaly, made it to age 80.
Floyd Patterson died at age 71, Alzheimer's and dementia pugilistica.
Ingemar Johansson died at age 76, Alzheimer’s, dementia, and pneumonia.
Joe Frazier - 67.

Average for this group: 65.8

Overall total average age of death of all former champions combined: 71 years.
Out of 20 champions, 2 died in their 90s, 4 died in their 80s, 4 died in their 70s, 5 died in their 60s, and 5 died in their 50s.

I removed Johnson, Marciano, and Liston from the equation because of their premature deaths from unnatural causes. Johnson was 68 at the time of his death and appears to have been in good health.


If you account for race, using only Louis through Frazier, then the average for black champions is 67.4. Average for white champions is 72.

Ali is currently 69. Norton is 68. If history holds true, on average, plus the recent trend, I’d say Ali doesn’t have a whole lot of time left.

Just watch what all those wars do to Holmes, Holyfield, and Bowe’s life spans. I’m curious to see how long Foreman and Tyson live. They usually administered beatings, which might save them in one respect, but Foreman fought and got hit for a lot of years, late in life, and Tyson took a few beatings too, plus the drug abuse.

[soul_survivor]

I would say for this list you would have to separate it out and minus Frazier and he was essentially the nest gen of heavyweight champs (I'm adding Liston to this as well) :

Thereafter, it appears that most champions, on the whole, are living shorter lives:

Primo Carnera died at 61.
Max Baer died at 50.
Jim Braddock died at age 69.
Joe Louis died at 66, nearly 67.
Ezzard Charles died at 53, nearly 54, of ALS.
Joe Walcott, the lone anomaly, made it to age 80.
Floyd Patterson died at age 71, Alzheimer's and dementia pugilistica.
Ingemar Johansson died at age 76, Alzheimer’s, dementia, and pneumonia.
Sonny Liston, 40, heroin overdose.

Avg - 63.1

The next group of champions -
Muhammad Ali died at 74
Joe Frazier died at 67
Jimmy Ellis died at 74
Ernie Terrell died at 75
Leon Spinks died at 67

Current avg - 71.4

From that generation, Foreman is still alive (currently 75) and I'm not including Norton (died at 70_ as he never won the belt he sort of had.
These guys did alright as opposed to the generation of champs just before them.

The 80s and much of the 90s will look silly because there were so many so called champions and a lot of them were drug addicts and ended up living terrible lives.

[Kid Cauliflower]

I would say for this list you would have to separate it out and minus Frazier and he was essentially the nest gen of heavyweight champs (I'm adding Liston to this as well) :

Thereafter, it appears that most champions, on the whole, are living shorter lives:

Primo Carnera died at 61.
Max Baer died at 50.
Jim Braddock died at age 69.
Joe Louis died at 66, nearly 67.
Ezzard Charles died at 53, nearly 54, of ALS.
Joe Walcott, the lone anomaly, made it to age 80.
Floyd Patterson died at age 71, Alzheimer's and dementia pugilistica.
Ingemar Johansson died at age 76, Alzheimer’s, dementia, and pneumonia.
Sonny Liston, 40, heroin overdose.

Avg - 63.1

The next group of champions -
Muhammad Ali died at 74
Joe Frazier died at 67
Jimmy Ellis died at 74
Ernie Terrell died at 75
Leon Spinks died at 67

Current avg - 71.4

From that generation, Foreman is still alive (currently 75) and I'm not including Norton (died at 70_ as he never won the belt he sort of had.
These guys did alright as opposed to the generation of champs just before them.

The 80s and much of the 90s will look silly because there were so many so called champions and a lot of them were drug addicts and ended up living terrible lives.

Good observations and conjectures other than the fact that Frazier has to stay. He died a natural death, and precisely that is what we are looking for. Natural deaths cannot be excluded even if the cause is congenital. Unnatural deaths are excluded because they do not carry the information of when the person died naturally. Frazier out lived expectations for his birth year by 5 years.

Liston and Marciano are excluded for the same very good reason.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Max Schmeling almost made 100 and was incredibly active and cogent for most all those years, and look how bad he got beat up by Joe in their rematch...

[Kid Cauliflower]

The original compiler did a good job and was only right to leave out Johnson, Liston and Marciano. That is the proper way.

But also he viewed it from the wrong perspective and misunderstood the meaning of some numbers.

I now see from the other forum's comments as far as I read, that one poster did express a couple of ideas similar to mine without as much detail.

*************************************************

The first column of numbers gives the age at death, the next how far they exceeded the expected or fell short.

Lifespan

Sullivan 59........................+20

Corbett 66.........................+31

Fitzsimmons 54.................+15

Jefferies 77........................+39

Hart 55...............................+16

Burns 56............................+15

Willard 86...........................+47

Dempsey 86.......................+40

Tunney 81..........................+35

Schmeling 99.....................+49

Sharkey 91.........................+45

Carnera 61..........................+15

Baer 50.................................-2

Braddock 69..........................+19

Louis 67.................................+13

Charles 53..............................-1

Walcott 80...............................+26

Patterson 71............................+11

Johannsen 71......................... +13

Frazier 67.................................+5

Ali 74.........................................+13

Norton 70...................................+7


Of the Twenty-two dead champions listed, all but two lived a longer than expected life, measured from their birth date's life expectancy, for a grand total of 472 extra years lived by these mere twenty-two men, when the combined negative 3 years of Baer and Charles (2 and 1 respectively) are subtracted.

If this does not promote the value of exercise, I don't know what does!

It even seems to overcome the negativity of being pounded in the head and body for years, and then over compensates.

573 divided by 22, is 21.45 extra years of life per man when it is averaged for 22 men!

Rather astounding, I know. It floored me.

[soul_survivor]

Good observations and conjectures other than the fact that Frazier has to stay. He died a natural death, and precisely that is what we are looking for. Natural deaths cannot be excluded even if the cause is congenital. Unnatural deaths are excluded because they do not carry the information of when the person died naturally. Frazier out lived expectations for his birth year by 5 years.

Liston and Marciano are excluded for the same very good reason.

I didn't say Frazier should not be included because of cause of death, I was just saying he did not belong in that group (Patterson, Ingemar etc). He should be in the latter group of champs along side Ali, Norton et al. Unless I misunderstood the groupings.

[them_apples]

I like statistics anyway and had already been reading the graphs when I ran into this:

https://www.*************.com/thread...mpions.364340/

And if you put it together with this things get more interesting:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ates-all-time/

I won't say more until you have time to view the documents in case no one is too interested. Some of you have probably already seen the first one, since it does come from a boxing forum.

Whoops! The first link does not work so I resorted cut and paste. He goes.

Sullivan died at 59.
Corbett died at 66.
Fitzsimmons died at 54.

Average: 59.6.

Then there was a pocket of overall longevity:
Jeffries was 77 going on 78 at his death.
Marvin Hart died at 55.
Tommy Burns was 73, nearly 74.
Jess Willard died at 86, nearly 87.
Jack Dempsey died at 87, nearly 88.
Gene Tunney died at 81.
Max Schmeling lived to 99.
Jack Sharkey lived to age 91.

Average for this group: 81.

Thereafter, it appears that most champions, on the whole, are living shorter lives:

Primo Carnera died at 61.
Max Baer died at 50.
Jim Braddock died at age 69.
Joe Louis died at 66, nearly 67.
Ezzard Charles died at 53, nearly 54, of ALS.
Joe Walcott, the lone anomaly, made it to age 80.
Floyd Patterson died at age 71, Alzheimer's and dementia pugilistica.
Ingemar Johansson died at age 76, Alzheimer’s, dementia, and pneumonia.
Joe Frazier - 67.

Average for this group: 65.8

Overall total average age of death of all former champions combined: 71 years.
Out of 20 champions, 2 died in their 90s, 4 died in their 80s, 4 died in their 70s, 5 died in their 60s, and 5 died in their 50s.

I removed Johnson, Marciano, and Liston from the equation because of their premature deaths from unnatural causes. Johnson was 68 at the time of his death and appears to have been in good health.


If you account for race, using only Louis through Frazier, then the average for black champions is 67.4. Average for white champions is 72.

Ali is currently 69. Norton is 68. If history holds true, on average, plus the recent trend, I’d say Ali doesn’t have a whole lot of time left.

Just watch what all those wars do to Holmes, Holyfield, and Bowe’s life spans. I’m curious to see how long Foreman and Tyson live. They usually administered beatings, which might save them in one respect, but Foreman fought and got hit for a lot of years, late in life, and Tyson took a few beatings too, plus the drug abuse.

Also consider lifestyles.

Frazier boozed hard along with his hard career

Foreman seems like he might live to and old age, genetics perhaps and he was a bit better at riding shots than people think. We didn’t see him shakey legged too much, and he took 12 years off not long after the lyle fight. But overall its likely just his robust genetics.

Tyson abused himself and had a rough career, he took some hard underated beatings. Like the Lewis fight for example, he got planted hard in that fight and his legs gave out. But hes been living healthy for a while now so well see.

I think larger men don’t generally live as long as is though, also factor that in.

all speculation. How someone takes care of themselves afterwards probably plays a huge role. Many heavyweights spiralled once they no longer were fighting. Even Louis for example. ******* and booze right to the end, and that Marciano KO was very very bad

[Kid Cauliflower]

I didn't say Frazier should not be included because of cause of death, I was just saying he did not belong in that group (Patterson, Ingemar etc). He should be in the latter group of champs along side Ali, Norton et al. Unless I misunderstood the groupings.

Ah, I see. Sorry for my oversight.

[Kid Cauliflower]

There are certain built-in discrepancies in the results. First and foremost the comparison is not of two like groups but only somewhat similar.

Heavyweight champions vs the public at large including babies and derelicts, hardly seems fair. They are already heavyweight champs, so they have already done better than John Q. Public with all its dead babies and dopers to drag the average down.

The set we would like to compare is of the champs' exact contemporaries that survived with them into adulthood.

Did the champs live longer than those the same age attending their fights? Something like that would be a lot more accurate. The numbers we are using do point us in the right direction though.

[max baer]

Great thread this is.
Has anyone considered that exercise too much shortens life and i recall a female friend of smokin' joe saying he had run around the world a few times if you add up all his cardio training.
There is fitness and there is extreme training which is very damaging to health.
If you also recall that many of these guys in between fights took drugs and booze as part of the rock n roll lifestyle of heavyweight champions.