Which boxer pioneered boxing techniques as we know them today

[Ivich]

This post is exactly what I am trying to articulate...

1. I might present a Hermeneutic statement with a set of points that define what Locche did as being the RAD (Rope a Dope). i could conceviably prove my point by Heuristically applying the criteria I set fourth. I could claim that according to those points, which could be proved, the conclusion reached is valid.

2. I could make a statement that we cannot assign an origination point to this technique. Just as you did above.

I understand your point about Locche.

3. I could simply state an opinion. In this case? I believe Ali did something fundamentally different in a meaningful way that makes it unique... Certainly not better, just a little different. But this is just an opinion, there really is no proof.

The thing is, depending on how we frame a conclusion, what we are looking for, things change considerably.

I don't know what hermenuetic or heuristically mean.
Do you mean the interpretation of language,and the rule of thumb?

[BKM-]

What?

Tunney may have been a master of boxing but he was a disaster for the fight game.

Never caught on with the fans. Put the game to sleep and did everyone a favor when retired.

And was a boorish, impolite man.

A disaster for prize fighting but a big credit to the fight game.

[BKM-]

How was Tunney such a disaster? He was a Marine, he had good story telling ability and an interesting story to tell... Why don't you and Pep get a bunch of part time martial artists, have them wear a uniform that would give any gay pride attendent a woody, make a sport where the claim is there are no rules... bring in a family of professional fighters from a country like.... oh Brazil? to whip on the semi professional plumbers who go to the dojo part time and want to scrap.. Maybe if you guys do this you will get a real blood lust, a sanguinity guaranteed to create fan excitemen..... WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

I was indulging Wilie too much there yes. I'm a Tunney fan after all. But I just want to say it is tough for any fighter to follow up on heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey that's all.

[BKM-]

If expecting to be excited by a fight is the definition then I am a "casual fan." -- not sure I buy into your word choice but certainly I do not veiw the game in the same manner as you.

I am not much interested in watching a fighter display his boxing skills as mch as I want to see him display those skills in a fight.

Certainly that males you different and I suspect a 'better fan' than me, with your martial arts background and appreciation of skill, but I think you need to find a better choice of words than "casual fan" when demeaning my commitment to the fight game.

In regards to Tunney being boorish.

After the '26 loss Dempsey wrote an open letter to Tunney asking about the strange events that occurred in Dempsey's camp the morning of the fight (the susposed poisoning.) Tunney offered an open letter reply, a non-denial denial. Then Tunney used the opportunity to mock Dempsey's literacy.

His rudeness wasn't lost on fans who were willing to look pass his wonderful skills and judge the man as a man. Like I do. Must be a casual thing.

Well why would we care in 2024 if a fighter one century ago was considered "boring" and didn't live up to the national and international fame as the champ before him? Skills, resume, accomplishments and legacy are scrutinized more in the long run and in terms of that, Gene Tunney is like royalty.

[Willow The Wisp]

How was Tunney such a disaster? He was a Marine, he had good story telling ability and an interesting story to tell... Why don't you and Pep get a bunch of part time martial artists, have them wear a uniform that would give any gay pride attendent a woody, make a sport where the claim is there are no rules... bring in a family of professional fighters from a country like.... oh Brazil? to whip on the semi professional plumbers who go to the dojo part time and want to scrap.. Maybe if you guys do this you will get a real blood lust, a sanguinity guaranteed to create fan excitemen..... WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

MMA still has a considerable fanbase, but it's peaked. BKB is the thing now, missing only the speedos. Lol.

[Willow The Wisp]

True story about those speedos. I was still writing for the mags a bit and Black Belt had some issue come out with a cover photo of a guy tatooed up, spandex shorts, very intense look on the face... I kept the latest black belt where it belonged when it was secured, right near the toilet! Because the writing was by and large not so good!

My wife gives me this strange look, and shows me the magazine. It never occured to me til she brought it up, how this cover photo looked. She was like "what magazine is this Honey? are you being straight with me? pardon the pun.

Lol. Yup.