If Men Under 200lbs Could Compete Successfully V Todays Top Heavies?

[Ivich]

Why did'
Mike Spinks add 25lbs to his frame to challenge Holmes?

Evander Holyfield add 18 lbs to his frame to challenge Douglas?

Olexandr Usyk add 24lbs to his frame to challenge Joshua?

Canelo Alvarez says he won't make 200lbs vs. Ilunga Makabu, will likely weigh much less than champion

Érika Montoya21. November 20212 min read

Alma Montiel / WBC
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After cleaning up in the super middleweight division in 11 months, the Mexican champion says it's time to move on.
At only 31 years old, Saul "Canelo" Alvarez has championships in four divisions. He is also undisputed super middleweight champion and the current face of boxing and that opens the door to seek challenges that will take him to the next level, and that includes moving up a division to go for a fifth crown.

"For many people there are limits, but not for me.... I want to thank (Ilunga Makabu) for the opportunity to fight for this title and to continue making history, to put one more star in my career, but I can't (reach 200 pounds), maybe 180, that would be fine," said the Mexican fighter, who in 11 months defeated all the 168-pound champions and who is now analysing his future.

Canelo assured that for a long time he fulfilled everything that had been asked of him in order to be considered among the best and that now it is his turn to choose.

"2021 was special, to unify this division, something that no one had achieved. To be among the six in the history of boxing (undisputed championship), to be the first Latino. For me it has been the best year. I'm happy and proud to represent all Mexicans and now it's my turn to do what I want. Now the truth is that I faced all the world champions at 168 and I took the title from all of them and now I can do whatever I want," said the Guadalajara native, who will return in May 2022.

However, according to Canelo's trainer, Eddy Reynoso, there are still details to be defined for the fight with Makabu, and the weight will undoubtedly be one of the most complicated issues as the Congolese fighter declared that he would not accept an agreed weight.

"I am very happy to keep making history, to keep looking for challenges, it is a dangerous challenge but I love that kind of challenge," Alvarez said. "A year ago I said no cruiserweight and here we are, so I don't think so (to reach heavyweight) but with Eddy I don't know sometimes. I don't think so. It's not a possibility, my body is not up to it."
THERE IS NO RULE PROHIBITING A FIGHTER UNDER 200LBS FROM CHALLENGING FOR A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
THERE IS NO RULE PROHIBITING A FIGHTER FROM A LOWER DIVISION CHALLENGING A CHAMPION OF A HIGHER DIVISION.
ANYONE WHO SAYS DIFFERENT NEEDS TO PROVIDE PROOF!

[Dr. Z]

The key word is today

Usky is no small man! He is in fact bigger than Ali was in shape at 220 Lbs.

That is enough ( 215+ ) to compete today at heavyweight Vs elite heavyweight opposition with fair judging!

Holy was on roids and Douglas showed up out of shape and IMO opted not to get up

[them_apples]

Why did'
Mike Spinks add 25lbs to his frame to challenge Holmes?

Evander Holyfield add 18 lbs to his frame to challenge Douglas?

Olexandr Usyk add 24lbs to his frame to challenge Joshua?

he didn’t add 25 lbs to his frame. He just stopped cutting weight. spinks looked like a smooth light heavy. He was a very small heavyweight by frame.

[them_apples]

The key word is today

Usky is no small man! He is in fact bigger than Ali was in shape at 220 Lbs.

That is enough ( 215+ ) to compete today at heavyweight Vs elite heavyweight opposition with fair judging!

Holy was on roids and Douglas showed up out of shape and IMO opted not to get up

yet if they stood beside eachother Alis head is twice as big, his voice twice as loud, and for all intents and purposes Ali was a heavyweight.

when Ali wouldn’t train he would balloon to 235-240 even in his good years. This is because he is a heavyweight and his body wants food. Usyk needed drugs and weights to come in at 220, and he moves like trash - such a stiff tight fighter.

this is actually becoming such a ****** argument because the arguments against what I am saying are so incredibly weak. I get the feeling it’s just a matter of pride holding some posters back. Weight doesn’t mean that much because ANYONE can get heavy. We all could be heavier than Marciano if we wanted. The fact that you size kings dismiss so many other important factors is just because you watch fights with only one eye open and have already made up your mind.

Pacquiao was a featherweight beating up Jr middleweights. Why? Because he was a good fighter thats why, he used his speed to his advantage, and stamina from being a smaller man.

the reason we don’t see this anymore is because there aren’t any men around like Joe Louis or Marciano, both fine tuned human weapons who trained specifically to fight.

the fact that Fury is as rich as he is and looks the way he does is no excuse. Hes simply not working hard enough. He is carrying way too much weight on his frame that hes knock-kneed. Boxing just reflects the state of the the world. We got Joe *****s as presidents, Macrons and johnsons. Just testament to the mediocre point in time civilization is at if strength and toughness is a virtue.

[Dr. Z]

yet if they stood beside eachother Alis head is twice as big, his voice twice as loud, and for all intents and purposes Ali was a heavyweight.

when Ali wouldnâÃÂÃÂt train he would balloon to 235-240 even in his good years. This is because he is a heavyweight and his body wants food. Usyk needed drugs and weights to come in at 220, and he moves like trash - such a stiff tight fighter.

this is actually becoming such a ****** argument because the arguments against what I am saying are so incredibly weak. I get the feeling itâÂÂs just a matter of pride holding some posters back. Weight doesnâÂÂt mean that much because ANYONE can get heavy. We all could be heavier than Marciano if we wanted. The fact that you size kings dismiss so many other important factors is just because you watch fights with only one eye open and have already made up your mind.

Pacquiao was a featherweight beating up Jr middleweights. Why? Because he was a good fighter thats why, he used his speed to his advantage, and stamina from being a smaller man.

the reason we donâÂÂt see this anymore is because there arenâÂÂt any men around like Joe Louis or Marciano, both fine tuned human weapons who trained specifically to fight.

the fact that Fury is as rich as he is and looks the way he does is no excuse. Hes simply not working hard enough. He is carrying way too much weight on his frame that hes knock-kneed. Boxing just reflects the state of the the world. We got Joe *****s as presidents, Macrons and johnsons. Just testament to the mediocre point in time civilization is at if strength and toughness is a virtue.

Well them_apples, Heavyweight boxing has evolved into its own version of boxing. Back in Ali's day men who fought at heavyweight were on average say 205 pounds! I say this by estimating the weights of ring ****zines ranked ten opponents. Other things such as hitting power today have greatly increased. Obviously height and reach had increased. These things are easily understood by you.

YES Ali could be 220 or 225 BUT his speed and stamina decreased at this weight. He moved less and wasn't as good. Anyone can gain weight. There is no minimum or maximum requirement at heavyweight. But height, and reach ARE ADVANTAGES in boxing so is weight as long as it does decrease speed and stamina.

[Willie Pep 229]

he didnât add 25 lbs to his frame. He just stopped cutting weight. spinks looked like a smooth light heavy. He was a very small heavyweight by frame.

I agree, Spinks looked naturally larger, not bloated with gym muscles nor peds.

I see him as the only true LHW to win the HW Title. I think Hollyfield's similar climb to the top of the fight game is tarnished by his obvious ped use. But that's just one man's opinion.

It is truly a shame that Tyson blew the Douglas fight. Had we gotten Tyson-Hollyfield in 1990 I believe it would not only have been a great fight, but neither man by then was so PEDed up that they looked unnatural, as they did six years later, in 1996.

By the time Tyson climbed into the ring with Lewis he looked like he was a drawn cartoon character.

[them_apples]

I agree, Spinks looked naturally larger, not bloated with gym muscles nor peds.

I see him as the only true LHW to win the HW Title. I think Hollyfield's similar climb to the top of the fight game is tarnished by his obvious ped use. But that's just one man's opinion.

It is truly a shame that Tyson blew the Douglas fight. Had we gotten Tyson-Hollyfield in 1990 I believe it would not only have been a great fight, but neither man by then was so PEDed up that they looked unnatural, as they did six years later, in 1996.

By the time Tyson climbed into the ring with Lewis he looked like he was a drawn cartoon character.

What about Charles win over Louis? I agree though if Mike wasn’t hooked on coke and was still training seriously with the right people in his corner, I think Tyson and Holyfield would have been a hell of a fight.

I used to always pick Holy because I figured the heart issue to be Tysons downfall. But under closer inspection, Tyson seems like he’s just not in the type of condition to beat Holyfield in 1996. Yes age and all that does matter, but it won’t change the fact that one man was simply in better shape. Mike looked gassed in the first fight, worn out from parties and drugs.

[Willie Pep 229]

What about Charles win over Louis? I agree though if Mike wasnât hooked on coke and was still training seriously with the right people in his corner, I think Tyson and Holyfield would have been a hell of a fight.

I used to always pick Holy because I figured the heart issue to be Tysons downfall. But under closer inspection, Tyson seems like heâs just not in the type of condition to beat Holyfield in 1996. Yes age and all that does matter, but it wonât change the fact that one man was simply in better shape. Mike looked gassed in the first fight, worn out from parties and drugs.

I am not sure why you ate asking about Louis-Charles I was not part of that discussion.

But with that said I believe that was a finished Louis. I would place no credence on that bout. I believe that was Charles close to his peak and Louis merely a shadow.

[Slugfester]

yet if they stood beside eachother Alis head is twice as big, his voice twice as loud, and for all intents and purposes Ali was a heavyweight.

when Ali wouldnâÃÂÃÂt train he would balloon to 235-240 even in his good years. This is because he is a heavyweight and his body wants food. Usyk needed drugs and weights to come in at 220, and he moves like trash - such a stiff tight fighter.

this is actually becoming such a ****** argument because the arguments against what I am saying are so incredibly weak. I get the feeling itâÂÂs just a matter of pride holding some posters back. Weight doesnâÂÂt mean that much because ANYONE can get heavy. We all could be heavier than Marciano if we wanted. The fact that you size kings dismiss so many other important factors is just because you watch fights with only one eye open and have already made up your mind.

Pacquiao was a featherweight beating up Jr middleweights. Why? Because he was a good fighter thats why, he used his speed to his advantage, and stamina from being a smaller man.

the reason we donâÂÂt see this anymore is because there arenâÂÂt any men around like Joe Louis or Marciano, both fine tuned human weapons who trained specifically to fight.

the fact that Fury is as rich as he is and looks the way he does is no excuse. Hes simply not working hard enough. He is carrying way too much weight on his frame that hes knock-kneed. Boxing just reflects the state of the the world. We got Joe *****s as presidents, Macrons and johnsons. Just testament to the mediocre point in time civilization is at if strength and toughness is a virtue.

yet if they stood beside each other Alis head is twice as big, his voice twice as loud.

You are using head size and the volume of a man's voice now? How about who shit bigger turds? That must count for something.

[billeau2]

Why did'
Mike Spinks add 25lbs to his frame to challenge Holmes?

Evander Holyfield add 18 lbs to his frame to challenge Douglas?

Olexandr Usyk add 24lbs to his frame to challenge Joshua?

It will always be a point of contention. And there will always be things that are important but just not part of the conversation mostly because of general ignorance.

I'll mention a few of these. First of all, what affects competition? If you look at heavyweights today their skill sets are extremely limited with some exceptions of course, they are not conditioned very well compared to in the past I mean they can barely plod for 12 rounds half the time using an amateur style. Could the fact that a smaller heavyweight from the past compete simply be based on skill level?

Paradoxical a lot of the bigger heavyweights from the past were not particularly skilled, at least compared to the great fighters of the time. Again with obvious exceptions to the rule... but if we look at the average size as compared to Peers, we see fighters like Abe Simon, primo canara, etc. generally these fighters would never considered as skilled compared to the average size heavyweight at the time.

IN modern times a lot of bigger heavyweights were are considered also some of the best. Klitsko, Lewis, etc

Finally something that them apples and I among others have alluded to is the idea of size. Size is not all based on weight. Look at the size of a pitbull and how it is built compared to a large dog like an Afghan. A lot of the heavyweights that came in light deliberately had big bones, and size in terms of density with respect to muscle mass.

No doubt a fighter like Liston could easily fight at 250 plus today without being in as nearly good physical condition. This to me is a very important detail when it comes to making this comparison regarding competition.

Even a fighter like Marciano could probably come in at around 210 even 215, if he plodded using a base amateur style as opposed to using constant pressure. But why would he want to do that?

Let's look at the Pitbull Cruze versus Rolly Romero fight as a good analogy. Pitbull is actually a small fighter for the weight while Rolly was big for the weight... Pitbull size allowed him to maximize his tactics and he became, by virtue of these tactics the stronger puncher, the more aggressive fighter, etc.