Did Monzon retire to avoid Hagler?

[Ivich]

No, it is important, Willie. If true, it would be a major revelation, not because it has overwhelming significance, but just because it happened, and to straighten out history, which a lot of people consider important. The date of Jan 1 1966 is quite a dark horse by now. But the only thing I am interested in is whether Monzon was ever knocked down by Fernandez.. It is easy to make a mistake on dates or a number while adding and means nothing unless the person shown to be wrong insists on defending a Mickey Mouse error. Z had better stick to the alleged knockdown itself and forget the meaningless ancillaries like dates.

If he had done so it would not have become a cause celebre but sticking to his story and making up that ludicrous tale about reading it in an Argentinian newspaper,just exposed him.
Now he has dropped the date without ever admitting he was wrong about it ,or the fact it was not for the South American title, or that Fernandez fought a further 4 fights before retiring for 2 years.That just shows the character of the "man",and the italics are deliberate.

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage ,rage against the dying of the light.

[DeeMoney]

None of my beeswax, but.....

The IBHOF has enshrined at least five murderers (Monzon, Blackburn, McCoy, Papke and King), because they weigh merit based on accomplishments in boxing. A rather honest approach I believe; as opposed to Baseball, where Pete Rose is barred and legendary SOB Ty Cobb is in.
Ivich has done the same as the Hall with the superb Monzon, we can surmise.

Now get ahold of yourself. You don't win every "Expert pissing contest", and so what?!

People like you and "Queensbury rules" have the goods to really contribute here, insted of provoking pointless arguments and silly statements. You can redeem your sigil.

Not to be a pedant, because I agree with your general point on voting guys in due to merit as opposed to social accomplishments, but I wanted to give a slight nod to Ty Cobb. He was a competitive jerk, as most know, but he wasn't quite the legendary SOB that some think.

I suggest reading "Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty", it shows how though Cobb may have been cantankerous and ready to fight at the drop of a hat, he wasn't this horrible racist we think of today. And how Al Stump basically made all of that up after Cobb died to sell books. When the truth was Cobb was actually fairly charitable, favored integration, and actually donated a lot of money to various black causes.

[billeau2]

Not to be a pedant, because I agree with your general point on voting guys in due to merit as opposed to social accomplishments, but I wanted to give a slight nod to Ty Cobb. He was a competitive jerk, as most know, but he wasn't quite the legendary SOB that some think.

I suggest reading "Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty", it shows how though Cobb may have been cantankerous and ready to fight at the drop of a hat, he wasn't this horrible racist we think of today. And how Al Stump basically made all of that up after Cobb died to sell books. When the truth was Cobb was actually fairly charitable, favored integration, and actually donated a lot of money to various black causes.

Great post... Baseball was kind of a game where the more sociopathic your rep, the better off you were on the field lol.

[Ivich]

If he had done so it would not have become a cause celebre but sticking to his story and making up that ludicrous tale about reading it in an Argentinian newspaper,just exposed him.
Now he has dropped the date without ever admitting he was wrong about it ,or the fact it was not for the South American title, or that Fernandez fought a further 4 fights before retiring for 2 years.That just shows the character of the "man",and the italics are deliberate.

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage ,rage against the dying of the light.

Mystery solved!

A STAR BOWS OUT, A STAR BOWS IN - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com

Fernandez DID knock Monzon down in their first fight on September 3rd 1966.

The following is an extract from the 2nd Valdes fight in which Monzon badly injured his right hand in the later rounds and had to rely on his left to win the fight.

"In the second round, Valdes opened a cut on Monzon's nose, then knocked him down with an overhand right over a left lead. Monzon hadn't been off his feet since Jorge Fernandez floored him in 1966."

What Fernandez did not do is knock him down in a fight in January1966 because he never fought him on that date.

They fought twice, for Fernandez' Argentinian Middleweight title on September 3rd 1966 Monzon won a unanimous decision,and for the South American Middleweight title on the 10th of June 1967.Monzon again won a unanimous decision.

LOGICAL CONCLUSION;

SINCE THEY DID NOT FIGHT IN JANUARY1966 NO ARTICLE WAS PRINTED IN AN ARGENTINIAN NEWSPAPER GIVING A REPORT OF THEIR FICTITIOUS FIGHT ON THAT DATE
THEREFORE SOMEBODY HAD TO HAVE MADE UP THAT FAIRY TALE!

Now to once again address the subject of the thread.
Hagler did not win the title until 3 years after Monzon had retired.
Monzon announced his retirement in August1977 he was 35 years old and had been having trouble with his right hand that had to be injected with Novocaine before fights, he had fought everyone.

Griffith x2. no1 x2
Benvenuti Champ& no
Bouttier x2. no 4 x2
Mundine no1
Valdesx2. no1 x2
Tonna no4
Licata no2
Moyer no3
Bogs Unranked
Briscoe no4

Scott no5 non title fight.
Hagler entered the Ring rankings towards the tail end of 1977 with his win over Mike Colbert.

Monzon was then retired.It would be three years befor Hagler won the title.

Between Monzon and Hagler there were 4 middleweight champions Valdes, Monzon's sucessor had been beaten twice by Monzon.Corro,Antufermo whom Hagler got a title chance at but could only get a draw,and Minter, who boxed Antuofermo's ears off twice.

Hagler stopped Minter on cuts, but he was always going to win that fight.
A section of the crowd disgraced themselves and British boxing that night by rioting and throwing bottles from the balcony.
Vito Antuofermo who was doing commentary with Howard Cosell was hit by someone behind him,he turned and laid the guy out.
I was near to Harry Gibbs ,he left his seat and went to stand in front of Terry Lawless' Wife to shield her from the missiles raining down from above.all of us near the front turned to face the incoming as we could then see them and take evasive action.Henry Cooper commentating for BBC said," **** this ,"and disappeared.
So no, Monzon retired because he had done everything he wanted to do ,had $2 million in a US bank and several lucrative investments,and film deals.Hagler ,an equally great champion was never on his radar.
A shame because,had they met in their respective primes it would have been a fight for the ages,one to watch,but definitely not one to bet on imo!

[Dr. Z]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32032163]

Your attempt to minimise Fernandez later career and portray him as just a welter won't wash.
Fernandez won the ;
South American Light Middle weight title.
Argentinian Light Middleweight title.
The Argentinian Middleweight title.
The Spanish Middleweight title.
He won nothing at welterweight.
He is known for his successes at the higher weights.
BTW He was heavier than Monzon in both their fights.[/QUOTE



I am saying he is a 5'7" former welterweight. And saying I notice a trend of Monzon boxing many of these short men who have limited reaches. A few of them knocked Monzon down.

Those are the facts and observations.

By the way, Ferandaez fought the WBC and WBA world welterweight title. You left out, I wonder why. Sure Fernandez wasn't a known welterweight.

He has many significant fights in the weight class. It is you that doesn't wash!

[Dr. Z]

A STAR BOWS OUT, A STAR BOWS IN - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com

Fernandez DID knock Monzon down in their first fight on September 3rd 1966.

The following is an extract from the 2nd Valdes fight in which Monzon badly injured his right hand in the later rounds and had to rely on his left to win the fight.

"In the second round, Valdes opened a cut on Monzon's nose, then knocked him down with an overhand right over a left lead. Monzon hadn't been off his feet since Jorge Fernandez floored him in 1966.

I told you Fernandez knocked Monzon down. You do not listen. Why do you keep on challenging me only to look ******.

I grow weary of you.






Now do some research. What is Fernandez reach? Well, was it less than 70" inches? Pull up the fight report, why don't you?

[Dr. Z]

No, it is important, Willie. If true, it would be a major revelation, not because it has overwhelming significance, but just because it happened, and to straighten out history, which a lot of people consider important. The date of Jan 1 1966 is quite a dark horse by now. But the only thing I am interested in is whether Monzon was ever knocked down by Fernandez.. It is easy to make a mistake on dates or a number while adding and means nothing unless the person shown to be wrong insists on defending a Mickey Mouse error. Z had better stick to the alleged knockdown itself and forget the meaningless ancillaries like dates.

Monzon was in fact knocked down by Fernandez. I told the board and or resident village idiot has finally confirmed it.

[BattlingNelson]

Different eras. Good posts here by Ivich and others. The question has been answered.

Agreed.

[Incapable]

Monzon announced his retirement in August 1977 a few days after his 35rd birthday .

Monzon fought punchers.

Valdez was a big puncher,he remains the only man to floor Briscoe in96 fights


Mundine has a ko record of80 % and he fought from middleweight to heavyweight

Tonna has a ko record of 80.43%

Briscoe has a ko record of 80.3%

Bouttier has a ko record of 67.19%,

Monzon was never ko'd and unlike Hagler he didn't lose his title to an ex welterweight who was coming out of 3 years retirement.He retired as unbeaten middleweight champ!

Monzon was knocked down 4 times in 100 fights!
Three times by 46 fight Felipe Cambeiro, Monzon had fought just12 fights.
Once by Valdez
Monzon never fought Fernandez in Jan1966.

They fought twice, on the 3rd of September 1966 and on the 10th of Jun 1967/
Monzon won both fights.

Where is your source Fernandez knocked Monzon down in either fight?
After Monzon retired 4 men held the title before Hagler .Valdez,Corro,Anutofermo, Minter.
As Queensbury has pointed out that is a 3 years time gap.
I was ringside when Hagler won the title from Minter.

Hagler was never a Ring ranked contender whilst Monzon was fighting!

This comment of yours below is just total BS,

"Monzon picked on blown up guys from the lower weights, who didn't sport close to 75" reach and did not punch as hard as Hagler!"
Name ONE tall puncher who was ranked that Monzon avoided?



You talk nonsensical rubbish,and whilst making this agenda driven thread you have been comprehensively exposed doing so!

Well said, too much of this agenda crap going on, on here.
And it's always by the same little airheads.

[Slugfester]

Z has prevailed, sending his man to the hospital with a concussion. Now he must not stand over a vanquished opponent jeering. Good job. The laurel wreath belongs to you.