Was Lamotta A Top 10 MW all time

[Slugfester]

Boxrec

12 SD 26-09-1945

Comiskey Park, Chicago

"Robinson's best round was the sixth. LaMotta rallied furiously in the 9th, 10th, and 11th rounds. "The fight followed the usual pattern (of the previous four fights between the two), Robinson flashing style in the early heats, then coasting when he could. Jake set out in pursuit at the opening bell and bored in with bulldog tenacity throughout." The decision was disputed. Afterward, Robinson said "This was the toughest fight I've ever had with LaMotta."

I am not arguing this meets the standards you laid out. Just suggesting that this fight was close enough for it to be considered a disputed decision.

Both fighters were showing their wares; this kind of fight tends to be disputed.

Johnny Behr 59-61
Frank Clark 59-61
Arthur Oberg 63-57

I already knew it was a tough and close fight. The victory was unanimous, not split or majority. I can't say for sure either, of course. The audience did boo and Wikipedia does list it as very controversial. Their articles are written by citizens who are maybe not professionals, as I understand it. Our own Latifah could have written that article and we would never know unless he heckled what grade U in.

[Slugfester]

No. Top 16 though. Lol
My 2 cents (and worth every penny):
All-Time Middleweights Modern Era:

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Carlos Monzon
5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Marcel Cerdan
9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jr.
11.Mickey Walker
12.Mike Gibbons
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
15 Gennadiy Golovkin
16.Jake LaMotta
17.Freddie Steel
18.Thomas Hearns
19.Tiger Flowers
20.Tony Zale
21.Charley Burley
22.Tommy Ryan
23.Marcel Thil
24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
25.Georges Carpentier
26.Rocky Graziano
27.Jeff Smith
28.Dick Tiger
29.Roberto Duran
30.Mike McCallum
31.Billy Papke
32.Gene Fullmer
33.Holman Williams
34.Mike O’Dowd
35.Les Darcy
36.Eddie McGootry
37.Emile Griffith
38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
39.Eddie Booker
40.Frank Klaus
41.Al Hostak
42.Buck Crouse
43.Georgie Abrams
44.Lou Brouillard
45.Jimmy Clabby
46.Leo Houck
47.Vince Dundee
48.Rodrigo Valdez
49.Mike McCallum
50.Teddy Yarosz
51.Nino Benvenuti
52.Joey Giardello
53.James Toney
54.Ken Overlin
55.Al McCoy
56.Carmen Basilio
57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
58.Sergio Martinez
59.Laszlo Papp
60.Mike O'Dowd
61.Julian Jackson
62.George Chip
63.Lloyd Marshall
64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
65.Ceferino Garcia
66.Fred Apostoli
67.Gustav Scholz
68.Kelly Pavlik
69.Michael Nunn
70.Randy Turpin
71.Charles Humez
72.Chris Eubank
73.Sumbu Kalambay
74.Nigel Benn
75.Johnny Wilson
76.Alan Minter
77.Ace Hudkins
78.Gerald McClellan
79.Paul Pender
80.Arthur Abraham
81.Robert Villemain
82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
83.Jermall Charlo
84.Vito Antuofermo
85.Rene DeVos
86.Jack Chase
87.Hugo Corro
88.Terry Downs
89.Holly Mims
90.Miguel Cotto
91.Dave Sands
92.Hugo Kelly
93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
95.Dave Shade
95.George Benton
97.Clarence Alabama Kid
98."Allentown" Joe Gans
99.Young Ahearn
100.Mike Donovan

Could Ketchel possibly be overrated? That often happens when you die in your prime like Jimi Hendrix or Ketchel. What did Langford do at middleweight that you believe makes him the #1 middleweight of AT? Boxrec does not give me weights, so I don't know even which ones were middleweight affairs. Many people feel Sam took it easy on Ketchel in their exhibition to bring about a title shot later in California, which never came because Ketchel died.

[Ivich]

No. Top 16 though. Lol
My 2 cents (and worth every penny):
All-Time Middleweights Modern Era:

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Carlos Monzon
5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Marcel Cerdan
9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jr.
11.Mickey Walker
12.Mike Gibbons
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
15 Gennadiy Golovkin
16.Jake LaMotta
17.Freddie Steel
18.Thomas Hearns
19.Tiger Flowers
20.Tony Zale
21.Charley Burley
22.Tommy Ryan
23.Marcel Thil
24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
25.Georges Carpentier
26.Rocky Graziano
27.Jeff Smith
28.Dick Tiger
29.Roberto Duran
30.Mike McCallum
31.Billy Papke
32.Gene Fullmer
33.Holman Williams
34.Mike O’Dowd
35.Les Darcy
36.Eddie McGootry
37.Emile Griffith
38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
39.Eddie Booker
40.Frank Klaus
41.Al Hostak
42.Buck Crouse
43.Georgie Abrams
44.Lou Brouillard
45.Jimmy Clabby
46.Leo Houck
47.Vince Dundee
48.Rodrigo Valdez
49.Mike McCallum
50.Teddy Yarosz
51.Nino Benvenuti
52.Joey Giardello
53.James Toney
54.Ken Overlin
55.Al McCoy
56.Carmen Basilio
57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
58.Sergio Martinez
59.Laszlo Papp
60.Mike O'Dowd
61.Julian Jackson
62.George Chip
63.Lloyd Marshall
64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
65.Ceferino Garcia
66.Fred Apostoli
67.Gustav Scholz
68.Kelly Pavlik
69.Michael Nunn
70.Randy Turpin
71.Charles Humez
72.Chris Eubank
73.Sumbu Kalambay
74.Nigel Benn
75.Johnny Wilson
76.Alan Minter
77.Ace Hudkins
78.Gerald McClellan
79.Paul Pender
80.Arthur Abraham
81.Robert Villemain
82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
83.Jermall Charlo
84.Vito Antuofermo
85.Rene DeVos
86.Jack Chase
87.Hugo Corro
88.Terry Downs
89.Holly Mims
90.Miguel Cotto
91.Dave Sands
92.Hugo Kelly
93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
95.Dave Shade
95.George Benton
97.Clarence Alabama Kid
98."Allentown" Joe Gans
99.Young Ahearn
100.Mike Donovan

I'd rate Thil above Cerdan.No Archie Moore? Or Wade?Who did Carpentier beat at160lbs to rank him so high?

[Ivich]

Could Ketchel possibly be overrated? That often happens when you die in your prime like Jimi Hendrix or Ketchel. What did Langford do at middleweight that you believe makes him the #1 middleweight of AT? Boxrec does not give me weights, so I don't know even which ones were middleweight affairs. Many people feel Sam took it easy on Ketchel in their exhibition to bring about a title shot later in California, which never came because Ketchel died.

Though relatively young Ketchel's prime was behind him.

[Willie Pep 229]

No. Top 16 though. Lol
My 2 cents (and worth every penny):
All-Time Middleweights Modern Era:

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Carlos Monzon
5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Marcel Cerdan
9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jr.
11.Mickey Walker
12.Mike Gibbons
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
15 Gennadiy Golovkin
16.Jake LaMotta
17.Freddie Steel
18.Thomas Hearns
19.Tiger Flowers
20.Tony Zale
21.Charley Burley
22.Tommy Ryan
23.Marcel Thil
24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
25.Georges Carpentier
26.Rocky Graziano
27.Jeff Smith
28.Dick Tiger
29.Roberto Duran
30.Mike McCallum
31.Billy Papke
32.Gene Fullmer
33.Holman Williams
34.Mike O’Dowd
35.Les Darcy
36.Eddie McGootry
37.Emile Griffith
38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
39.Eddie Booker
40.Frank Klaus
41.Al Hostak
42.Buck Crouse
43.Georgie Abrams
44.Lou Brouillard
45.Jimmy Clabby
46.Leo Houck
47.Vince Dundee
48.Rodrigo Valdez
49.Mike McCallum
50.Teddy Yarosz
51.Nino Benvenuti
52.Joey Giardello
53.James Toney
54.Ken Overlin
55.Al McCoy
56.Carmen Basilio
57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
58.Sergio Martinez
59.Laszlo Papp
60.Mike O'Dowd
61.Julian Jackson
62.George Chip
63.Lloyd Marshall
64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
65.Ceferino Garcia
66.Fred Apostoli
67.Gustav Scholz
68.Kelly Pavlik
69.Michael Nunn
70.Randy Turpin
71.Charles Humez
72.Chris Eubank
73.Sumbu Kalambay
74.Nigel Benn
75.Johnny Wilson
76.Alan Minter
77.Ace Hudkins
78.Gerald McClellan
79.Paul Pender
80.Arthur Abraham
81.Robert Villemain
82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
83.Jermall Charlo
84.Vito Antuofermo
85.Rene DeVos
86.Jack Chase
87.Hugo Corro
88.Terry Downs
89.Holly Mims
90.Miguel Cotto
91.Dave Sands
92.Hugo Kelly
93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
95.Dave Shade
95.George Benton
97.Clarence Alabama Kid
98."Allentown" Joe Gans
99.Young Ahearn
100.Mike Donovan

Interesting list. Thank you.

I guess I got a problem with SRL being so high. One fight doesn't get you there (unless you're factoring in JMW fights.)

Certainly it was "one win" against a top five ATG, who sits on almost everyone's list. But it was Hagler's last fight and he actually did retire.

I like were you put Mike Gibbons I could squeeze him into the bottom half of the top ten. But I'm queer for the 1920s. I believe it was a tough era to excel.

I never understand Fitzsimmons as a MW. Seems more like people place him high on the MW list out of expectation than any real understanding that can be reached from his MW resume. But that may be a product of my ignorance.

[Ivich]

Interesting list. Thank you.

I guess I got a problem with SRL being so high. One fight doesn't get you there (unless you're factoring in JMW fights.)

Certainly it was "one win" against a top five ATG, who sits on almost everyone's list. But it was Hagler's last fight and he actually did retire.

I like were you put Mike Gibbons I could squeeze him into the bottom half of the top ten. But I'm queer for the 1920s. I believe it was a tough era to excel.

I never understand Fitzsimmons as a MW. Seems more like people place him high on the MW list out of expectation than any real understanding that can be reached from his MW resume. But that may be a product of my ignorance.

Similarly i believe Jack Dempsey fought when the middleweight limit was 154lbs,and how good was his opposition?
He may have been all they say he was ,but who did they have to compare him to?

It's entirely possible ,imo he would have had his hands full with the likes of Alan Minter and Vito Antuofermo,and I doubt either of then would crack anyone's top 20.

[QueensburyRules]

Similarly i believe Jack Dempsey fought when the middleweight limit was 154lbs,and how good was his opposition?
He may have been all they say he was ,but who did they have to compare him to?

It's entirely possible ,imo he would have had his hands full with the likes of Alan Minter and Vito Antuofermo,and I doubt either of then would crack anyone's top 20.

- - Compared to U, He and We all come out smelling like roses in spring bloom...

[Ivich]

- - Compared to U, He and We all come out smelling like roses in spring bloom...

Go to bed Children's Hour is over.You've had your silly,inane little post now **** off ,the adults are talking boxing.