How underrated is Jack Johnson

[Willie Pep 229]

Johnson's first "wife " was black. "I believe I have the right to decide who my mate shall be". Johnson.
Joe Jeannette's wife was white,but he kept his head down,and wasn't "uppity".lol

Wow! That is interesting. Then it was doable.

[Willow The Wisp]

Johnson's first "wife " was black. "I believe I have the right to decide who my mate shall be". Johnson.
Joe Jeannette's wife was white,but he kept his head down,and wasn't "uppity".lol

In his sociological favor, Jeanette was never world's champion either, nor did ever beat the living **** out of James J. Jeffries on the 4th of July.

[billeau2]

Johnson's first "wife " was black. "I believe I have the right to decide who my mate shall be". Johnson.
Joe Jeannette's wife was white,but he kept his head down,and wasn't "uppity".lol

Exactly... It is this sort of cloud that hangs over and asks people to fit into a category and respect the dominion of social attitudes one must forebare in order to not p i s s off the status quo. And I mean no disrespect to Jeannette... we are all allowed to choose our battles. I find a lot of things reprehensible but would probably not go into the heart of dixie circa 1950's and lecture them about how they treated Black People lol.

So while I do not agree/disagree with Johnson, I support the right of all of us to fight the battles we feel we need to, within the bounds of legal and rational actions. I just think Johnson was a man who did not care to bare the cross of racial inequality. And its an interesting dilema: A fighter like Louis was beloved, pretty much by all... Certainly by ***s like my dad, who came from a generation that identified with the Black struggles for equality. But Louis managed never to come across as genuflecting to white America, at least that is my impression?

Frazier had his own battles especially as the lighter (prettier lol) Ali insulted him... Liston had his fondness for the paternal teachings of a tough irish catholic Priest...Tyson, tragically lost Cus, who was a tough old *** that mentored Mike. And then there was Ali!

My point? What is often incorrectly identified as the Black Experience in America, is in fact a whole range of different, unique experiences that sometimes defy any stereotype. Johnson's experience was alas, one of so many.

[billeau2]

Wow! That is interesting. Then it was doable.

Ahh Pep, it has been doable for so long... If one is willing to just not poke the bear. My dad was a pretty big bigshot in Baltimore when he directed a music school. His boards were made up of two distinct groupings: Black men who had achieved success through the board of education, and very well to do Wasps who were sort of the elite power brokers with their "boards" like the one that financed the public school... The Wasps wanted, errr at least offered my dad membership into some very exclusive clubs in Baltimore, frequented by maryland's moneyed class... My dad politely declined... He knew a *** from the Bronx was not really welcome. I mean he could have just snuck in, nobody would have rescinded, but my dad felt, or so I suspect he felt, out of place.

I never did find out if he was more of the mind he was doing them, or himself a favor... one of many questions i wish I would have asked him... He could have been a *** in disguise, everybody loved him... And he was not a religious ***, he was raised a Marxist lol.

[Ivich]

Exactly... It is this sort of cloud that hangs over and asks people to fit into a category and respect the dominion of social attitudes one must forebare in order to not p i s s off the status quo. And I mean no disrespect to Jeannette... we are all allowed to choose our battles. I find a lot of things reprehensible but would probably not go into the heart of dixie circa 1950's and lecture them about how they treated Black People lol.

So while I do not agree/disagree with Johnson, I support the right of all of us to fight the battles we feel we need to, within the bounds of legal and rational actions. I just think Johnson was a man who did not care to bare the cross of racial inequality. And its an interesting dilema: A fighter like Louis was beloved, pretty much by all... Certainly by ***s like my dad, who came from a generation that identified with the Black struggles for equality. But Louis managed never to come across as genuflecting to white America, at least that is my impression?
The excellent stage play and film, The Great White Hope,has a scene where Johnson is confronted by fellow blacks rooting for him,he tells them to," basically find their own way to stop feeding off of him"

Frazier had his own battles especially as the lighter (prettier lol) Ali insulted him... Liston had his fondness for the paternal teachings of a tough irish catholic Priest...Tyson, tragically lost Cus, who was a tough old *** that mentored Mike. And then there was Ali!

My point? What is often incorrectly identified as the Black Experience in America, is in fact a whole range of different, unique experiences that sometimes defy any stereotype. Johnson's experience was alas, one of so many.

Good post ,except I think you'll find D'Amato was a Catholic. I don't go to fights anywhere as regularly as I used to,which was every month in the season,Back in those days UK boxing was run by ***s and a significant section of the audience would be ***ish.Black fighters were becoming more common and had their own rooting sections,the ***s among the crowd always referred to them as "Schwartzers"
.My first Wife was ***ish and her family were lovely people.

The excellent stage play and film, The Great White Hope,has a scene where Johnson is confronted by fellow blacks rooting for him,he tells them to," basically find their own way, and to stop feeding off of him.
I thought James Earl Jones was terrific as Johnson,I got to see him in Shakespeare's,
" Much Ado About Nothing," with Vanessa Redgrave at the Old Vic ,both were superb!
image.png

[Dr. Z]

Johnson's first "wife " was black. "I believe I have the right to decide who my mate shall be". Johnson.
Joe Jeannette's wife was white,but he kept his head down,and wasn't "uppity".lol

She looks white to me.

https://easttexashistory.org/files/s...exas%20History

Johnson had some negative things to say about African American women. He beat on his first wife, Ms. Etta Duryea.

[Ivich]

She looks white to me.

https://easttexashistory.org/files/s...exas%20History

Johnson had some negative things to say about African American women. He beat on his first wife, Ms. Etta Duryea.

Except his first Wife was not Etta Duryea,for a man who spends 75% of his time slagging off Johnson on the only boxing forum that will allow him to post on it, you know surprisingly little about him.
ps Ms usually indicates a single woman .
Johnsons first wife was Mary Austin a black girl .Its in his 1927 autobiography ,the one you like to quote!
He then lived with another black girl Clara Kerr for 3 years, she robbed him but they later reconciled.
Johnson had liasons with other black women including, Ada Brick Top Smith a night club owner and performer.
image.png
"I could love a black girl but they never give me affection back" Johnson.
Another failed attempt to slag off Johnson on your part.

Did he **** your Great Granny?Because you've sure got it bad for him!

[Dr. Z]

The link says his first wife was Duryea who he beat on multiple times. Prove to me he was married before! A Marriage license will do. Can you produce that? Johnson by the way was living at home with his parents until 1900! Another one if his tall tales. Shut up man, just shut up, Or put up as I requested. You can't and won't.

I'm not interested Johnson's night clubs ladies. AKA hookers.

[GhostofDempsey]

Except his first Wife was not Etta Duryea,for a man who spends 75% of his time slagging off Johnson on the only boxing forum that will allow him to post on it, you know surprisingly little about him.
ps Ms usually indicates a single woman .
Johnsons first wife was Mary Austin a black girl .Its in his 1927 autobiography ,the one you like to quote!
He then lived with another black girl Clara Kerr for 3 years, she robbed him but they later reconciled.
Johnson had liasons with other black women including, Ada Brick Top Smith a night club owner and performer.
image.png
"I could love a black girl but they never give me affection back" Johnson.
Another failed attempt to slag off Johnson on your part.

Did he **** your Great Granny?Because you've sure got it bad for him!

A few months ago I quoted Johnson from that 1927 auto-biography and you dismissed it as an "anonymous source". Now you're using it to win an argument. So which is it? Is it a valid source or a work of fiction as you've suggested in the past?

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...8#post31898588

[Ivich]

A few months ago I quoted Johnson from that 1927 auto-biography and you dismissed it as an "anonymous source". Now you're using it to win an argument. So which is it? Is it a valid source or a work of fiction as you've suggested in the past?

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...8#post31898588

Look up what Ken Burns says.
Its a work of fiction ,the point, which you missed by several miles is that Mendoza does exactly what you are now accusing me of i e selective quoting which I AM DOING but not to win the argument ,I've already won the argument, I won it 17 years ago!
I can however see what you might think.