If Jeannette Had Fought And Beaten Johnson In1912?

[travestyny]

I didn't leave that out.

No MSG involved.

Yes, MSG was involved.

Billy Gibson personally called Jack Johnson and asked him if he would fight Joe Jeannette in New York. Johnson said, "Yes, as long as I get my price ($30,000)." That's what kicked everything off.

That was before the McMahons swooped in and got the fight.

Gibson (MSG Promoter) stated that he saw no obstacle to the fight happening in New York, specifically noting that they were "colored."

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes, MSG was involved.

Billy Gibson personally called Jack Johnson and asked him if he would fight Joe Jeannette in New York. Johnson said, "Yes, as long as I get my price ($30,000)." That's what kicked everything off.

That was before the McMahons swooped in and got the fight.

Gibson (MSG Promoter) stated that he saw no obstacle to the fight happening in New York, specifically noting that they were "colored."

By August, no MSG, no Gibson, no 30K. None of that seems relevant, certainly not important.

[travestyny]

By August, no MSG, no Gibson, no 30K. None of that seems relevant, certainly not important.

I just explained why it's important.

Gibson began it all with his call to Johnson asking if Johnson would fight in New York. Johnson replied yes.

He then asked if he would fight Joe Jeannette in New York.

Johnson replied, "If I get my price."

The fact that Gibson, the MSG promoter, was under the impression that the fight would be allowed says a lot, being that he's probably the biggest promoter in New York at the time, don't you think, sparky?

[travestyny]

By August, no MSG, no Gibson, no 30K.

Congratulations. You got 1 out of 3 right. I'll let you read and decide which.


Oh, I guess I'll give you one. August 1st, 1912

Only because I like to match your energy

[Willie Pep 229]

I just explained why it's important.

Gibson began it all with his call to Johnson asking if Johnson would fight in New York. Johnson replied yes.

He then asked if he would fight Joe Jeannette in New York.

Johnson replied, "If I get my price."

The fact that Gibson, the MSG promoter, was under the impression that the fight would be allowed says a lot, being that he's probably the biggest promoter in New York at the time, don't you think, sparky?

No I don't. Had nothing to do with what JJ committed to. The issue is, was JJ for real?

Anything involving MSG and Billy Gibson meant nothing; means nothing to the question at hand.

Did JJ believe he might get a fight or was he, as Dr. Z argues, 'blowing smoke out his butt."

Now here's a real question. When did New York say no to the Fynn fight? On what grounds did New York refuse the Flynn fight?

Billy Gibson saying he would promote the fight means nothing. Where talking about a man who forged Gene Tunney's signature on a contract; a man who hid in a sanatorium to avoid testfying in court; were talking about a man who is remembered in Arnold Rothstein's will.

Just because you read that he said MSG was available doesn't mean it was. He couldn't buck Albany, (if they actually did ban JJ.)

I want to know, when and what did New York actually say about JJ.

"Billy Gibson said" -- that is amusing.

Sparky that's the history-lite I'm complaing about. You have no grasp of the historical context, the players, or the chronology of any of this.

P.S. I would have left out the insult paragraph if you just could have, for once, been polite. But once again, you were not.

[travestyny]

No I don't. Had nothing to do with what JJ committed to. The issue is, was JJ for real?

Anything involving MSG and Billy Gibson meant nothing; means nothing to the question at hand.

Did JJ believe he might get a fight or was he, as Dr. Z argues, 'blowing smoke out his butt."

Now here's a real question. When did New York say no to the Fynn fight? On what grounds did New York refuse the Flynn fight?

Billy Gibson saying he would promote the fight means nothing. Where talking about a man who forged Gene Tunney's signature on a contract; a man who hid in a sanatorium to avoid testfying in court; were talking about a man who is remembered in Arnold Rothstein's will.

Just because you read that he said MSG was available doesn't mean it was. He couldn't buck Albany, (if they actually did ban JJ.)

I want to know, when and what did New York actually say about JJ.

"Billy Gibson said" -- that is amusing.

Sparky that's the history-lite I'm complaing about. You have no grasp of the historical context, the players, or the chronology of any of this.

P.S. I would have left out the insult paragraph if you just could have, for once, been polite. But once again, you were not.

If the president of Black Rock tells you to invest in Coca Cola.....


Do you invest in Coca Cola...or it "doesn't mean nothing."


You're smart. I'll let you try to put it together.



And stop playing the victim. You can dish it but you can't take it apparently. I called you sparky. You claimed I edited a newspaper article Would love for you to present the proof on that, victim.

[travestyny]

Sparky that's the history-lite I'm complaing about. You have no grasp of the historical context, the players, or the chronology of any of this.

This is rich coming from someone who was just proven wrong for the umpteenth time


Listen dude. Let me try my best to explain this to you clearly.

This conversation is what's unnecessary. You got here all by yourself:

I think considering the amount of planning and the MULTIPLE news entries we should conclude Johnson was acting in good faith.

My simple point is....would the biggest fight promoter in New York begging Jack Johnson to come fight in New York also lead to the conclusion that Jack Johnson was acting in good faith?

Obviously, yes.

Johnson doesn't make fights with commissions. He makes fights with promoters. Promoters are trying to make fights that WILL happen....not trying to make fights that will never be allowed. Newspapers were reporting on the negotiations so obviously the commission could have spoken up at any time. Gibson is on record saying he expects no problem for these "colored" fighters. Johnson is on record saying the fight will go through because both are Black. The McMahons obviously believed the fight would go through. Jeanettes team obviously believes the fight will go through..

Either you can't grasp a simple point or something else is going on.


Because you have a grievance with me, we have to go through this song and dance of you pretending not to get the point that an 8 year old can grasp all because I posted some information about Jack Dempsey that you don't like. I didn't write the information. Be mad at whoever wrote the newspaper articles and whoever gave the quotations, sometimes Jack Dempsey himself. Be mad at him!

But clogging up the board with grumpy, nonsensical posts just because you can't accept some truths.....I'm sure we all here can do without it. If you disagree that this would further lend to the believe that Johnson acted in good faith, then please explain why. If you don't disagree, then all you had to do was move on.

In conclusion, it would be nice if you could stop behaving like a scorned female.

[Willie Pep 229]

This is rich coming from someone who was just proven wrong for the umpteenth time


Listen dude. Let me try my best to explain this to you clearly.

This conversation is what's unnecessary. You got here all by yourself:



My simple point is....would the biggest fight promoter in New York begging Jack Johnson to come fight in New York also lead to the conclusion that Jack Johnson was acting in good faith?

Obviously, yes.

Johnson doesn't make fights with commissions. He makes fights with promoters. Promoters are trying to make fights that WILL happen....not trying to make fights that will never be allowed. Newspapers were reporting on the negotiations so obviously the commission could have spoken up at any time. Gibson is on record saying he expects no problem for these "colored" fighters. Johnson is on record saying the fight will go through because both are Black. The McMahons obviously believed the fight would go through. Jeanettes team obviously believes the fight will go through..

Either you can't grasp a simple point or something else is going on.


Because you have a grievance with me, we have to go through this song and dance of you pretending not to get the point that an 8 year old can grasp all because I posted some information about Jack Dempsey that you don't like. I didn't write the information. Be mad at whoever wrote the newspaper articles and whoever gave the quotations, sometimes Jack Dempsey himself. Be mad at him!

But clogging up the board with grumpy, nonsensical posts just because you can't accept some truths.....I'm sure we all here can do without it. If you disagree that this would further lend to the believe that Johnson acted in good faith, then please explain why. If you don't disagree, then all you had to do was move on.

In conclusion, it would be nice if you could stop behaving like a scorned female.

It would be nice if you stopped wasting my time repeating your bias conclusions.

[travestyny]

It would be nice if you stopped wasting my time repeating your bias conclusions.

What bias conclusion would that be? Do share!

[Ivich]

No I don't. Had nothing to do with what JJ committed to. The issue is, was JJ for real?

Anything involving MSG and Billy Gibson meant nothing; means nothing to the question at hand.

Did JJ believe he might get a fight or was he, as Dr. Z argues, 'blowing smoke out his butt."

Now here's a real question. When did New York say no to the Fynn fight? On what grounds did New York refuse the Flynn fight?

Billy Gibson saying he would promote the fight means nothing. Where talking about a man who forged Gene Tunney's signature on a contract; a man who hid in a sanatorium to avoid testfying in court; were talking about a man who is remembered in Arnold Rothstein's will.

Just because you read that he said MSG was available doesn't mean it was. He couldn't buck Albany, (if they actually did ban JJ.)

I want to know, when and what did New York actually say about JJ.

"Billy Gibson said" -- that is amusing.

Sparky that's the history-lite I'm complaing about. You have no grasp of the historical context, the players, or the chronology of any of this.

P.S. I would have left out the insult paragraph if you just could have, for once, been polite. But once again, you were not.

Johnson went into training, and he posted a cash bond , he then travelled to NY ,what evidence do you have to suggest that he did not think the fight would happen?
Jeannette, McKetrick ,and the McMahon's thought it would .What inside information did Johnson possess that told him the fight would not take place?

Some seem to willfully want to believe Johnson had no intention of going through with the fight,yet never produce any proof to substantiate that?