If Jeannette Had Fought And Beaten Johnson In1912?

[Ivich]

No I don't. Had nothing to do with what JJ committed to. The issue is, was JJ for real?

Anything involving MSG and Billy Gibson meant nothing; means nothing to the question at hand.

Did JJ believe he might get a fight or was he, as Dr. Z argues, 'blowing smoke out his butt."

Now here's a real question. When did New York say no to the Fynn fight? On what grounds did New York refuse the Flynn fight?

Billy Gibson saying he would promote the fight means nothing. Where talking about a man who forged Gene Tunney's signature on a contract; a man who hid in a sanatorium to avoid testfying in court; were talking about a man who is remembered in Arnold Rothstein's will.

Just because you read that he said MSG was available doesn't mean it was. He couldn't buck Albany, (if they actually did ban JJ.)

I want to know, when and what did New York actually say about JJ.

"Billy Gibson said" -- that is amusing.

Sparky that's the history-lite I'm complaing about. You have no grasp of the historical context, the players, or the chronology of any of this.

P.S. I would have left out the insult paragraph if you just could have, for once, been polite. But once again, you were not.

Johnson went into training, and he posted a cash bond , he then travelled to NY ,what evidence do you have to suggest that he did not think the fight would happen?
Jeannette, McKetrick ,and the McMahon's thought it would .What inside information did Johnson possess that told him the fight would not take place?

Some seem to willfully want to believe Johnson had no intention of going through with the fight,yet never produce any proof to substantiate that?

[Ivich]

Imbecile! Yes that means you. Do I have your attention now? Several offers from known promoters offered Jack Johnson $30,000.00, $50,000.00 and $100,000.00 to fight Langford Jeanette and McVey.


They can black seen in black and white in the press. The offers range in time from 1909-1915! Let me know if you want to see them, okay?


Now as I told you Johnson pulled out of a signed contract to meet Sam Langford. The ducker never wanted to fight him from 1909-1915, even though the fights were in demand in France, Australia, England and parts of the USA! All over the world.


Joe Jeanette was equally avoided and said, "Jack forgot about his old friends after he became champion and drew the color line against his own people." Jeannette continued to fight until his retirement in 1919 at the age of 40.


Johnson only signed a contact with Jeanette when he was sure the fight could not happen in a certain area. No problem there are several other venues in cities that would gladly accept the patronage for a big fight. Just the facts,


Now will you STFU ? You are clearly biased and do not even follow your own double standards. Go ahead and switch your reply up to other fighters that do not have anything to do with this thread. That is your modus operandi. It's not an accident that you have had several arguments beyond boxing other people on this forum. Be gone.

Still waiting for proof of these claims.


"Several offers from known promoters offered Jack Johnson $30,000.00, $50,000.00 and $100,000.00 to fight Langford Jeanette and McVey.


They can black seen in black and white in the press. The offers range in time from 1909-1915! Let me know if you want to see them, okay?"

Will you post these now? I'm sure we would all like to see them!

[Dr. Z]

Still waiting for proof of these claims.


"Several offers from known promoters offered Jack Johnson $30,000.00, $50,000.00 and $100,000.00 to fight Langford Jeanette and McVey.


They can black seen in black and white in the press. The offers range in time from 1909-1915! Let me know if you want to see them, okay?"

Will you post these now? I'm sure we would all like to see them!

Why should I waste time for your feeble mind? You call me out on one hand and say I spoil your threads on the other. Do you realize that? You're a sick man who is emotionally bankrupt. This makes no sense. Think about it ...

Okay just for you because you have asked.

Explain why Adam Pollack would diligently research Johnson's career and state categorically that he signed to defend against Jeannette twice and the reason the fights did not happen was because of the NYAC?

Pollack doesn't post here anymore and is banned. Stop posting his name and giving him free press here. Does he pay you?


Now the French wanted Johnson vs. and Langford and Joshnon vs. . Jeannette. Jack Johnson was there for a while. France obviously had no problem watching Johnson fight other African Americans ( See Johnson vs Johnson, or Jeannette vs Mcvey ) yet Johnson did not fight either and they stripped him! Yes -- that happened.



The NYAC is a corrupt organization that voted against Dempsey vs. Wills for example. Okay fight somewhere else!

Now I want you to use your pig head and tell me Johnson did fight them when there were 1 ) paying customers that wanted to see it, 2 ) he had no problem legally fighting there. Why did Johnson duck them?



I calling you out as I answered a question of yours, now you answer one of mine. Then I will continue. Don't go ad hominem and attack me as usual. Answer my question for a change.


I won't waste anymore time with you in this thread. My reply is for the readers mainly to shed insight on the topic of the tread and 2 ) to expose you for what you are, That is a pig head and biased man who will not answer my questions.

[Ivich]

Why should I waste time for your feeble mind? You call me out on one hand and say I spoil your threads on the other. Do you realize that? You're a sick man who is emotionally bankrupt. This makes no sense. Think about it ...

Okay just for you because you have asked.



Pollack doesn't post here anymore and is banned. Stop posting his name and giving him free press here. Does he pay you?


Now the French wanted Johnson vs. and Langford and Joshnon vs. . Jeannette. Jack Johnson was there for a while. France obviously had no problem watching Johnson fight other African Americans ( See Johnson vs Johnson, or Jeannette vs Mcvey ) yet Johnson did not fight either and they stripped him! Yes -- that happened.



The NYAC is a corrupt organization that voted against Dempsey vs. Wills for example. Okay fight somewhere else!

Now I want you to use your pig head and tell me Johnson did fight them when there were 1 ) paying customers that wanted to see it, 2 ) he had no problem legally fighting there. Why did Johnson duck them?



I calling you out as I answered a question of yours, now you answer one of mine. Then I will continue. Don't go ad hominem and attack me as usual. Answer my question for a change.


I won't waste anymore time with you in this thread. My reply is for the readers mainly to shed insight on the topic of the tread and 2 ) to expose you for what you are, That is a pig head and biased man who will not answer my questions.

You've answered NOTHING! NO DATES ,VENUES ,NAMES OF PROMOTERS,AND CERTAINLY NO PURSES OF $30,000 ,$50,000 or $100 000!

AND I want YOU to post these verified offers of $30,000,$50,000 and$100,000 that YOU say Johnson refused!

The ones that YOU said YOU would post if I requested them!

Here is YOUR post! Complete with grammar errors!

"Several offers from known promoters offered Jack Johnson $30,000.00, $50,000.00 and $100,000.00 to fight Langford Jeanette and McVey.


They can black seen in black and white in the press. The offers range in time from 1909-1915! Let ME know if you want to see them, okay?"


I've requested then twice now in the last 2 days and now and am doing so again! So post them! It's that simple!

PROVE YOUR CLAIMS!
NOW YOU WILL BAIL OUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED UPON TO PROVE YOUR CLAIMS!

[Dr. Z]

You've answered NOTHING! NO DATES ,VENUES ,NAMES OF PROMOTERS,AND CERTAINLY NO PURSES OF $30,000 ,$50,000 or $100 000!

AND I want YOU to post these verified offers of $30,000,$50,000 and$100,000 that YOU say Johnson refused!

"Several offers from known promoters offered Jack Johnson $30,000.00, $50,000.00 and $100,000.00 to fight Langford Jeanette and McVey.


They can black seen in black and white in the press. The offers range in time from 1909-1915! Let ME know if you want to see them, okay?"

I've requested then twice now in the last 2 days and now and am doing so again! So post them! It's that simple!

Some examples for you:


CHICAGO, Oct. 12. -- Jack Johnson tonight announced that he had accepted the offer of $50,000 to fight Sam Langford and Sam McVey in Australia, made by Hugh D. McIntosh.

1. San Francisco Call
2. 30 December 1911

San Francisco Call, Volume 111, Number 30, 30 December 1911



San Francisco Call 30 December 1911 — California Digital Newspaper Collection (ucr.edu)
Johnson agrees to fight McVey from $30,000 in Australia.


Langford and Jeannette were in Paris to fight one another,which they did ,the day after Johnson fought Battling Jim.
The French Federation stripped Johnson of his title BEFORE his fight with Battling Jim and subsequently awarded it to Langford,a month later they reinstated Johnson.Do you know I've never see a post by you in which you have the facts ,such meagre "information" as you proffer is invariably WRONG as it is on this occasion




??? Gee I wonder who wrote this???



"JOHNSON ACCEPTS OFFER

Agrees to Fight Sam Langford Before London Club on Derby Day

London, Feb. 5--Jack Johnson, the heavyweight champion, tonight notified the National Sporting Club that he has accepted their offer of a $6,000 purse for a match of twenty rounds with Sam Langford. The fight will take place during Derby week and the purse will be divided, $4,000 to the winner and $2,000 to the loser. Each man is to recieve $750 to cover travelling and training expenses." - Various sources printed between Feb 6th and Feb 8th, with this one taken from the Feb 8th, 1909, Salt Lake Herald

From that point on their were NUMEROUS newspaper sources from back then stating that Johnson and Langford were going to meet in London on May 24th, including more quotes from Johnson himself when he wrote a letter to a sportswriter by a W.H. Moseley as printed in sources dated Feb 22nd, 1909;

"As to your suggestion that I don't fight Langford in the event I whipped Burns, I will say that I am open to all comers and would not call myself the champion if I cannot defend the title. I gave my word to my English friends to fight Langford, win or lose with Burns, and I shall do so. I know Sam has whipped some good men in America lately and that I am going up against a warm proposition, but you will remember I bested him in our fifteen-round fight, and while he has improved a great deal from his recent fights, I have learned a thing or two myself. I do think, however, that Sam is the best today in the game outside of myself; but when we fight, get a big bunch on me, for 'I'll deliver the goods'.
Jack Johnson, Champion of the World, of Galveston, Texas, U.S.A."

Johnson signs the agreement to face Langford in London, publicly states that he has agreed to the fight in many sources, and then pulls out of the fight around Mar 18th, of 1909, gets himself called a "coward" and "yellow" by the press (some papers, such as the Times Dispatch, Apr 18th, report that Johnson was "hot under the collar" and whatnot over being called such things, but still stuck to his backing out of the fight, as well as getting called out by the manager (a Mr. Bettinson) of the NSC for failing to honour the agreement, and then publicly admits on Apr 19that "he broke his word" after stating that he "had promised to fight Langford at London (both quotes taken from Washington Times, Apr 19th, 1909)



>>> You'd think Johnson would have honored the contact after the Burns fight yet he did not! You would think his manger who say Langford made things up about the fight where Johnson had 30 pounds on the estimated 20 year old. That did not happen either! He is guilty of ducking the mature Sam Langford for years.

"
Mistah Johnson’s afraid to meet me, ’cause Mistah Gibson of the Fairmount Club once offered him $l0,000 to box six rounds with me. Mistah johnson wouldn’t hear of it and ran away when he knew I was waitin' around the corner. Every time I tried to pin him down he said I’d have to put up $20,000 as a forfeit and aide r t ain’t so easy to get that much money together, and he knew that way the way to prevent a match"


" When met in Cheisea five years ago in a fifteen round bout. I weighed 140 pounds then, while Mistah Johnson weighed 190 "


You can read that and more here.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SPDN1911...ngford-------1






>>>> Now I can show you more examples of Johnson getting offers to fight Langford, Jeannette and McVey.

Now I want you to use your pig head and tell me Johnson did fight them when there were 1 ) paying customers that wanted to see it, 2 ) he had no problem legally fighting there especially in France. Why did Johnson duck them? Why? All of these offers. Answer me why this happened. You can't and you won't.


You are a sad and obsessed poster

[Ivich]

Some examples for you:


CHICAGO, Oct. 12. -- Jack Johnson tonight announced that he had accepted the offer of $50,000 to fight Sam Langford and Sam McVey in Australia, made by Hugh D. McIntosh.

1. San Francisco Call
2. 30 December 1911

San Francisco Call, Volume 111, Number 30, 30 December 1911



San Francisco Call 30 December 1911 — California Digital Newspaper Collection (ucr.edu)
Johnson agrees to fight McVey from $30,000 in Australia.


Langford and Jeannette were in Paris to fight one another,which they did ,the day after Johnson fought Battling Jim.
The French Federation stripped Johnson of his title BEFORE his fight with Battling Jim and subsequently awarded it to Langford,a month later they reinstated Johnson.Do you know I've never see a post by you in which you have the facts ,such meagre "information" as you proffer is invariably WRONG as it is on this occasion




??? Gee I wonder who wrote this???



"JOHNSON ACCEPTS OFFER

Agrees to Fight Sam Langford Before London Club on Derby Day

London, Feb. 5--Jack Johnson, the heavyweight champion, tonight notified the National Sporting Club that he has accepted their offer of a $6,000 purse for a match of twenty rounds with Sam Langford. The fight will take place during Derby week and the purse will be divided, $4,000 to the winner and $2,000 to the loser. Each man is to recieve $750 to cover travelling and training expenses." - Various sources printed between Feb 6th and Feb 8th, with this one taken from the Feb 8th, 1909, Salt Lake Herald

From that point on their were NUMEROUS newspaper sources from back then stating that Johnson and Langford were going to meet in London on May 24th, including more quotes from Johnson himself when he wrote a letter to a sportswriter by a W.H. Moseley as printed in sources dated Feb 22nd, 1909;

"As to your suggestion that I don't fight Langford in the event I whipped Burns, I will say that I am open to all comers and would not call myself the champion if I cannot defend the title. I gave my word to my English friends to fight Langford, win or lose with Burns, and I shall do so. I know Sam has whipped some good men in America lately and that I am going up against a warm proposition, but you will remember I bested him in our fifteen-round fight, and while he has improved a great deal from his recent fights, I have learned a thing or two myself. I do think, however, that Sam is the best today in the game outside of myself; but when we fight, get a big bunch on me, for 'I'll deliver the goods'.
Jack Johnson, Champion of the World, of Galveston, Texas, U.S.A."

Johnson signs the agreement to face Langford in London, publicly states that he has agreed to the fight in many sources, and then pulls out of the fight around Mar 18th, of 1909, gets himself called a "coward" and "yellow" by the press (some papers, such as the Times Dispatch, Apr 18th, report that Johnson was "hot under the collar" and whatnot over being called such things, but still stuck to his backing out of the fight, as well as getting called out by the manager (a Mr. Bettinson) of the NSC for failing to honour the agreement, and then publicly admits on Apr 19that "he broke his word" after stating that he "had promised to fight Langford at London (both quotes taken from Washington Times, Apr 19th, 1909)



>>> You'd think Johnson would have honored the contact after the Burns fight yet he did not! You would think his manger who say Langford made things up about the fight where Johnson had 30 pounds on the estimated 20 year old. That did not happen either! He is guilty of ducking the mature Sam Langford for years.

"
Mistah Johnson’s afraid to meet me, ’cause Mistah Gibson of the Fairmount Club once offered him $l0,000 to box six rounds with me. Mistah johnson wouldn’t hear of it and ran away when he knew I was waitin' around the corner. Every time I tried to pin him down he said I’d have to put up $20,000 as a forfeit and aide r t ain’t so easy to get that much money together, and he knew that way the way to prevent a match"


" When met in Cheisea five years ago in a fifteen round bout. I weighed 140 pounds then, while Mistah Johnson weighed 190 "


You can read that and more here.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SPDN1911...ngford-------1






>>>> Now I can show you more examples of Johnson getting offers to fight Langford, Jeannette and McVey.

Now I want you to use your pig head and tell me Johnson did fight them when there were 1 ) paying customers that wanted to see it, 2 ) he had no problem legally fighting there especially in France. Why did Johnson duck them? Why? All of these offers. Answer me why this happened. You can't and you won't.


You are a sad and obsessed poster

Yes Johnson accepted an offer to fight both Langford and McVey in Australia for a purse of $47 ,000 plus 3 round trip tickets,training expenses and a percentage of the film rights.This is all well documented in Pollacks 2nd Vol of Johnson.

Unfortunately ,for you
JOHNSON ACCEPTED THE OFFER.I ASKED YOU FOR OFFERS OF $30,000,$50,000 AND $100,000 HE TURNED DOWN! LOL

Yes Johnson signed to fight Langford in London at the NSC in Covent Garden in October I believe ,that was in1908 BEFORE he became champion,on the 26th of December of that year.
After he had won the title for which he got a pittance,he a


NOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS FIND OFFERS OF $30,000.$50,000,and $100,000 THAT JOHNSON TURNED DOWN!
I REALLY CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY SIMPLER OR PLAINER FOR YOU
DATES.VENUES.PROMOTERS.PURSES.THAT IS WHAT WE WANT!

While you are at it, take a look at the weights Langford was fighting at when he fought Johnson on24th of April1906 for which he claimed he was 140lbs and Johnson190lbs
On the 13th of February,1905 nearly a year earlier Langford weighed 155lbs to fight Young Peter Jackson and earlier that year had weighed 150lbs to fight Dave Holly!

Its pure BS just as is his claim to have floored Johnson and given him a very hard fight.
Langford was floored 3 times for long nine counts and received cuts over his eye and a broken nose.
Langford also claimed their exhibition the next day was an all out war, with him driving Johnson before him and fire buckets coming of their moorings!
Yet reports of the exhibition ,which I have, state Johnson was careful not to hit Langford's damaged eye!
NOW LETS HAVE THOSE PRIMARY SOURCED OFFERS THAT JOHNSON REFUSED!

YOU used to claim Johnson was stripped of hit title by the French Federation because of his performance against Battling Jim,I see you have dropped that claim Johnson was reinstated by the French Federation3 weeks after they stripped him.I don't think anybody noticed!

[QueensburyRules]

Yes Johnson accepted an offer to fight both Langford and McVey in Australia for a purse of $47 ,000 plus 3 round trip tickets,training expenses and a percentage of the film rights.This is all well documented in Pollacks 2nd Vol of Johnson.

Unfortunately ,for you
JOHNSON ACCEPTED THE OFFER.I ASKED YOU FOR OFFERS OF $30,000,$50,000 AND $100,000 HE TURNED DOWN! LOL

Yes Johnson signed to fight Langford in London at the NSC in Covent Garden in October I believe ,that was in1908 BEFORE he became champion,on the 26th of December of that year.
After he had won the title for which he got a pittance,he a


NOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS FIND OFFERS OF $30,000.$50,000,and $100,000 THAT JOHNSON TURNED DOWN!
I REALLY CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY SIMPLER OR PLAINER FOR YOU
DATES.VENUES.PROMOTERS.PURSES.THAT IS WHAT WE WANT!

While you are at it, take a look at the weights Langford was fighting at when he fought Johnson on24th of April1906 for which he claimed he was 140lbs and Johnson190lbs
On the 13th of February,1905 nearly a year earlier Langford weighed 155lbs to fight Young Peter Jackson and earlier that year had weighed 150lbs to fight Dave Holly!

Its pure BS just as is his claim to have floored Johnson and given him a very hard fight.
Langford was floored 3 times for long nine counts and received cuts over his eye and a broken nose.
Langford also claimed their exhibition the next day was an all out war, with him driving Johnson before him and fire buckets coming of their moorings!
Yet reports of the exhibition ,which I have, state Johnson was careful not to hit Langford's damaged eye!
NOW LETS HAVE THOSE PRIMARY SOURCED OFFERS THAT JOHNSON REFUSED!

YOU used to claim Johnson was stripped of hit title by the French Federation because of his performance against Battling Jim,I see you have dropped that claim Johnson was reinstated by the French Federation3 weeks after they stripped him.I don't think anybody noticed!

- - Johnson was stripped as you just admitted.

You seem less than cogent about your own content.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=QueensburyRules;n31981268]

- - Johnson was stripped as you just admitted.

I've posted he was stripped about a dozen times on this and another forum,3 weeks later Langford, who the French then recognized as Champ was stripped too ,and Johnson was reinstated ,because the EBU did not follow the French Federation's example.

I'm up to speed on this and have been for a couple of decades,you seem to be the one having trouble digesting the information?lol

[QueensburyRules]

I've posted he was stripped about a dozen times on this and another forum,3 weeks later Langford, who the French then recognized as Champ was stripped too ,and Johnson was reinstated ,because the EBU did not follow the French Federation's example.

I'm up to speed on this and have been for a couple of decades,you seem to be the one having trouble digesting the information?lol

- - I ain’t the one slugging down FrenchFried Slugs, YOU are.

Not to mention regurgitating what everyone on this forum already knows as you was some kinda genii…snickers…

[Ivich]

- - I ain’t the one slugging down FrenchFried Slugs, YOU are.

Not to mention regurgitating what everyone on this forum already knows as you was some kinda genii…snickers…

You have a strange penchant for saying French Fried Snails as though its some kind of witticism,they aren't fried.But what would you know?Happy now I responded to your trolling?Now be a good boy, Mummy's calling you ,so, Bye Bye!