Robinson vs McClellan

[them_apples]

He loses a competitive fight, Robinsons skills being superior and his survival skills and chin are top tier, which nullifies mcclelans best asset which is power in his straight right hand.

[kara]

He loses a competitive fight, Robinsons skills being superior and his survival skills and chin are top tier, which nullifies mcclelans best asset which is power in his straight right hand.

Apples knows the way.

[QueensburyRules]

So you can't show me where I ever said that I was a brainiac, why not just admit it?

And the only thing that you'd be hitting is air as you flail away just like a lil' girl.

But what kind of sick funk would ever, even hypothetically, match up a fighter with brain injuries, from his last fight, against a fighter who suffered from heat prostration in his most recent fight?

Who does that?

....................Rockin'

- - I ain’t’ the OP making the match, nor would I ever physically make the match.

I equalized their timelines, an example being so I won’t be matched up vs drugged weak as a kitten Holmes’ Ali making me The Greatest.

Need to read for content, not emotions.

[QueensburyRules]

You were the only poster to have the match up specified as 'POST' injuries.

I suppose that you are The Greatest sick and demented freak that I have ever met!

How can you compare yourself to two great fighters when you have never even stepped in to a ring to fight? Have you even seen a real live boxing ring before, in person?

Hey Bobby Deez, could you come handle some easy work that I found for myself?
................Rockin'

- - Sure, I understand the low functioning types don't understand the Timeline of a boxer's career is everything, something Matchmakers intuitively understand and exploit far more than I would.

Never compared myself to any boxer, but I did mention I and 5000 other healthy males of that timeline could've beat the grossly enfeebled Ali that Tubby Lar who was still skinny beat.

I'd have sued the commish and put him out of business had I the means then.

[them_apples]

Okay, here we go. I'm going to get tore up for this. SRR was may have been the greatest p4p champion of all time. not the greatest MW of all time. He lost his title 4 times. Yes, he was very good. McClellan would bring the fire. If Fullmer could beat SRR with half the skill and power of McClellan. Who knows. Not saying he could beat Robinson just food for thought.

yeah but his initial run at mw he looked phenominal. Look how well he did against Giardello and he was way past his prime

[Slugfester]

Robinson could easily have made junior middleweight for a long time if the division had existed then. Or he could have swept in to snatch a quick title on his way to middleweight. Though tall for his day (5'10") Robby was not a big middle weight but more reedy. He only weighed in over the limit once I know of (Fusari), and that was at welterweight. It was also about to months after Robinson had already won the Pennsylvania state middleweight championship!

[them_apples]

Robinson could easily have made junior middleweight for a long time if the division had existed then. Or he could have swept in to snatch a quick title on his way to middleweight. Though tall for his day (5'10") Robby was not a big middle weight but more reedy. He only weighed in over the limit once I know of (Fusari), and that was at welterweight. It was also about to months after Robinson had already won the Pennsylvania state middleweight championship!

I think he is a little taller than 5’10 his listing is 5’11 even 5’11 1/2 and also going by him standing beside other known figures.

on top of this, most 147 lb fighters could make 154 - just like a lot of 160 lbders could make 154, and many 168 could make 160. These inbetween classes just added more belts to sell 3 - 4 per class.

I’m trying to think of anyone at 160 that has a sure shot at beating the best version of Robinson at 160. I’m thinking maybe Jones? But even that we are still talking about an all time great (in SRR) - just bringing a lot more to the table than anyone else. A vast skillset, iron chin and a strong heart. It’s hard to say the speed difference at 160 because the film footage is so varied. When we talk about truly atg fighters, these guys could knock you out in round 15, behind on the cards.

[Slugfester]

[QUOTE=them_apples;n31991024]

I think he is a little taller than 5â10 his listing is 5â11 even 5â11 1/2 and also going by him standing beside other known figures.

on top of this, most 147 lb fighters could make 154 - just like a lot of 160 lbders could make 154, and many 168 could make 160. These in between classes just added more belts to sell 3 - 4 per class.

Iâm trying to think of anyone at 160 that has a sure shot at beating the best version of Robinson at 160. Iâm thinking maybe Jones? But even that we are still talking about an all time great (in SRR) - just bringing a lot more to the table than anyone else. A vast skillset, iron chin and a strong heart. Itâs hard to say the speed difference at 160 because the film footage is so varied. When we talk about truly atg fighters, these guys could knock you out in round 15, behind on the cards.[/QUOTE

I know that height is probably the most played-with statistic, because I think it is seldom, if ever, measured and is not expected to have changed. Sources rely on sources, right? So it gets repeated eternally. Wiki-pedia or Boxrec didn't go out and measure Robby's height to make sure. They went with sources. Everyone wants their fighter to be taller than he is--promoter, manager, the fighter himself, so I don't know the real answer. There may be some contradictions out there to 5' 11", as well. But 5' 11" does look about right to me.

"...on top of this, most 147 lb fighters could make 154 - just like a lot of 160 lbders could make 154, and many 168 could make 160. These in between classes just added more belts to sell 3 - 4 per class."

Please do not lecture me and lecture me good, as if I just promoted multiple divisions, son. Those other fighters do not even belong in the discussion. The point, which I stated clearly, is was and ever shall be: "Robinson could easily have made junior middleweight for a long time." Without massive dehydration. In our day, for instance.

It is extremely relevant that Robinson will be fighting a quite large middleweight in McClellan, who might not even be able to make the limit and re-hydrate effectively in Robby's day. That is why I brought it up and wrote my last letter in the first place.

As for sure bets against prime middleweight Robby, I think anyone is thinking in vain. Although his reedy frame will be naturally lighter than those of some middleweights from the era of massive dehydration and re-hydration (McClellan in particular), who just drop in briefly for a fight, against a boxer who was 4 1/2 lbs pounds under middleweight even when he took the title, and could have stayed at the still mythical junior middleweight limit for a long time. Like you, I still have to pick Robinson.

What did Robinson weigh against LaMotta when he took the title? 155 1/2 lbs. How much weight did McClellan have to cut when he won the title? Unknown. That is the point of my last letter. The fact that Robinson may be 5' 11" just makes him more reedy. They are not the same sized men. Sandy Saddler was actually taller than Tommy Burns, for an exaggerated example which nonetheless illustrates my point succinctly. McClellan ( a bit taller to boot) is well the larger man, just as Burns is to Saddler.

Going for the title above them, there was about a 10 lbs. difference in their prime weights, just as they weighed in respectively for Lamotta VI and Benn. About a division apart in natural weight.

Watching Benn/McClellan again tonight I think I saw that Robby would pick him apart from first bell to last. It would be McClellan getting hit hard first, when he misses his wild opening salvo and is counter punched. I don't think he will get off the ground, so to speak.

[them_apples]

[QUOTE=Slugfester;n31991622]

I think he is a little taller than 5â10 his listing is 5â11 even 5â11 1/2 and also going by him standing beside other known figures.

on top of this, most 147 lb fighters could make 154 - just like a lot of 160 lbders could make 154, and many 168 could make 160. These in between classes just added more belts to sell 3 - 4 per class.

Iâm trying to think of anyone at 160 that has a sure shot at beating the best version of Robinson at 160. Iâm thinking maybe Jones? But even that we are still talking about an all time great (in SRR) - just bringing a lot more to the table than anyone else. A vast skillset, iron chin and a strong heart. Itâs hard to say the speed difference at 160 because the film footage is so varied. When we talk about truly atg fighters, these guys could knock you out in round 15, behind on the cards.[/QUOTE

I know that height is probably the most played-with statistic, because I think it is seldom, if ever, measured and is not expected to have changed. Sources rely on sources, right? So it gets repeated eternally. Wiki-pedia or Boxrec didn't go out and measure Robby's height to make sure. They went with sources. Everyone wants their fighter to be taller than he is--promoter, manager, the fighter himself, so I don't know the real answer. There may be some contradictions out there to 5' 11", as well. But 5' 11" does look about right to me.
​
"...on top of this, most 147 lb fighters could make 154 - just like a lot of 160 lbders could make 154, and many 168 could make 160. These in between classes just added more belts to sell 3 - 4 per class."
​
Please do not lecture me and lecture me good, as if I just promoted multiple divisions, son. Those other fighters do not even belong in the discussion. The point, which I stated clearly, is was and ever shall be: "Robinson could easily have made junior middleweight for a long time." Without massive dehydration. In our day, for instance.

It is extremely relevant that Robinson will be fighting a quite large middleweight in McClellan, who might not even be able to make the limit and re-hydrate effectively in Robby's day. That is why I brought it up and wrote my last letter in the first place.

As for sure bets against prime middleweight Robby, I think anyone is thinking in vain. Although his reedy frame will be naturally lighter than those of some middleweights from the era of massive dehydration and re-hydration (McClellan in particular), who just drop in briefly for a fight, against a boxer who was 4 1/2 lbs pounds under middleweight even when he took the title, and could have stayed at the still mythical junior middleweight limit for a long time. Like you, I still have to pick Robinson.

What did Robinson weigh against LaMotta when he took the title? 155 1/2 lbs. How much weight did McClellan have to cut when he won the title? Unknown. That is the point of my last letter. The fact that Robinson may be 5' 11" just makes him more reedy. They are not the same sized men. Sandy Saddler was actually taller than Tommy Burns, for an exaggerated example which nonetheless illustrates my point succinctly. McClellan ( a bit taller to boot) is well the larger man, just as Burns is to Saddler.

Going for the title above them, there was about a 10 lbs. difference in their prime weights, just as they weighed in respectively for Lamotta VI and Benn. About a division apart in natural weight.

Watching Benn/McClellan again tonight I think I saw that Robby would pick him apart from first bell to last. It would be McClellan getting hit hard first, when he misses his wild opening salvo and is counter punched. I don't think he will get off the ground, so to speak.

yeah there is also the idea that the weight may not make a difference, and this happens often enough. Killing yourself to make 160 doesn’t always equate to better strength because you weigh more. I think had they both had to make 160 weight wouldn’t be much of a factor. There have been bigger size gaps historically

robinson has an ability advantage in every other category, I feel like this is a level gap on fight night

[Slugfester]

I don't think there is anything level about one mans outweighing another by ten pounds in prime peak condition. Just because there have been greater gaps in no way negates that McClellan was bigger. As they step into the ring, even if they both ate large meals, their weights will still be about ten pounds apart (9 1/2) to be exact.

Something I didn't lay out is when (which era) the mythical match will occur, and with which equipment under which guidelines. It makes a difference. I always go for the older era. For one thing, because they fought fifteen rounds, and the increased stamina to achieve this mark is part of the older fighters repertoire, and therefore should not be excluded.