The Toney Jirov fight... lets remember these great fights

[ShoulderRoll]

Great fight. I watched it live on tv when it happened and my eyes were glued to the screen the entire second half.

[kara]

The entire broadcast team turned into fans in that last round. It was awesome

The ESPN team is so scripted its crazy

[tokon]

They had some monster exchanges! I loved how Jirov trained himself to keep coming and how Toney could look in the eye of the storm and keep timing shots. I loved this fight.

Toney was juicing.

[ShoulderRoll]

Toney was juicing.

That ruins everything about his accomplishments in my opinion. Whatever success he had while using PEDs is tarnished.

[billeau2]

Toney was juicing.

Its a complex issue... My own feeling? If you think about what the value of life itself is, and lets say you give it a value of sorts, compare that to making sacrifices for glory... Lets first keep it basic: I will even use myself as an example, I studied karate for years, at a certain point it became apparent, with two concussions, broken fingers, etc that if i wanted to continue, my older days would suffer. I had a choice... I once met a man who never did much of anything and lived to be a healthy 99, is that what I wanted?

Now, lets take a professional fighter/athlete . Is the value of life such that one should not box, play football, etc? Luckily we do not have to make that decision, we can all make up our own minds... When I was not married with no kids, I decided running into crack dens in the Tenderloin hood with 15 year old Guardian Angel recruits, was ok... When I had kids, I stopped. No one had to tell me, I made a decision, and so does any athlete. Do you want mortality in all its glory? To live a boring life perhaps, but be healthy for all of it? Assuming there is a trade off, which we are doing for purposes of post. Bare with me Tokon...

Lets extend our thinking to chemical enhancements. We now try to ban them, then we look at individual circumstances and decide about whether it was egregious, more egregious... Toney was alleged to take a prescribed steriod used for healing injury, Holyfield, for example was alleged to be on a sophisticated program led by a nutrition steriod expert... Now first off? lets distinguish something: margarito using cement hand wraps? the practice of enhancing gloves, shoes, hands, wrappings, WE should be able to moniter that and the slippery slope looms large: You can't allow hardened hand wraps or the next guy could bring a mace into the ring lol, so to speak... Point is, we can not only moniter these activities relatively easily, but the implications are bad: hard materials in the gloves will kill the opponent, the risk is primarily your opponent's in fact.

What if with steriods, we levelled the field and simply said "you can enhance as you wish with chemical means that are geared towards enhancements. No drugs like Amphetamines, etc... NOw two things happen: I assume the risk of using the steriods, the opponent has the same potential resources I have. As things stand now WE HAVE NO IDEA how many and how much chemical enhancements boxers go through.

Steriods are a part of the training environment. They do not only build muscle but, for a certain amount of risk, help older athletes heal faster, and there is no conclusive proof that steriods help performance as a whole, only that they enhance certain short comings in an athlete.
Steriods are actually similar to other substances that are nutritional. There is a fine distinction, so even if we wanted to police them more carefully, we could still potentially level the playing field.

[billeau2]

The ESPN team is so scripted its crazy

Selldom do we get objective announcing lol. I think it is easier to announce if you have a bias lol.

[IronDanHamza]

Its a complex issue... My own feeling? If you think about what the value of life itself is, and lets say you give it a value of sorts, compare that to making sacrifices for glory... Lets first keep it basic: I will even use myself as an example, I studied karate for years, at a certain point it became apparent, with two concussions, broken fingers, etc that if i wanted to continue, my older days would suffer. I had a choice... I once met a man who never did much of anything and lived to be a healthy 99, is that what I wanted?

Now, lets take a professional fighter/athlete . Is the value of life such that one should not box, play football, etc? Luckily we do not have to make that decision, we can all make up our own minds... When I was not married with no kids, I decided running into crack dens in the Tenderloin hood with 15 year old Guardian Angel recruits, was ok... When I had kids, I stopped. No one had to tell me, I made a decision, and so does any athlete. Do you want mortality in all its glory? To live a boring life perhaps, but be healthy for all of it? Assuming there is a trade off, which we are doing for purposes of post. Bare with me Tokon...

Lets extend our thinking to chemical enhancements. We now try to ban them, then we look at individual circumstances and decide about whether it was egregious, more egregious... Toney was alleged to take a prescribed steriod used for healing injury, Holyfield, for example was alleged to be on a sophisticated program led by a nutrition steriod expert... Now first off? lets distinguish something: margarito using cement hand wraps? the practice of enhancing gloves, shoes, hands, wrappings, WE should be able to moniter that and the slippery slope looms large: You can't allow hardened hand wraps or the next guy could bring a mace into the ring lol, so to speak... Point is, we can not only moniter these activities relatively easily, but the implications are bad: hard materials in the gloves will kill the opponent, the risk is primarily your opponent's in fact.

What if with steriods, we levelled the field and simply said "you can enhance as you wish with chemical means that are geared towards enhancements. No drugs like Amphetamines, etc... NOw two things happen: I assume the risk of using the steriods, the opponent has the same potential resources I have. As things stand now WE HAVE NO IDEA how many and how much chemical enhancements boxers go through.

Steriods are a part of the training environment. They do not only build muscle but, for a certain amount of risk, help older athletes heal faster, and there is no conclusive proof that steriods help performance as a whole, only that they enhance certain short comings in an athlete.
Steriods are actually similar to other substances that are nutritional. There is a fine distinction, so even if we wanted to police them more carefully, we could still potentially level the playing field.

That is an incredibly wild, and frankly incorrect statement.

[kara]

Selldom do we get objective announcing lol. I think it is easier to announce if you have a bias lol.

Tessitore is the worst

[billeau2]

Tessitore is the worst

Hes bad lol! I miss guys like Bobby Chaz, who knew the sport and had a great intellect and ability to share it with others... at least before he fought Holyfield lol.

[billeau2]

That is an incredibly wild, and frankly incorrect statement.

Exactly how do steriods help boxing? Boxing skill sets are hard to correlate with success based on muscle mass. And as far as cardio, again the data is mixed. We do know that they help athletes heal, make athletes stronger. But fighters depend on fine motor skills, timing, and sometimes muscle mass is a detriment. My point is, if we look at blood doping? we know it increases oxygen in the blood, ok... More oxygen means more cardio.

The only thing we know about steriods and how they make a boxer better would be in their healing effect. If an older fighter can heal better... which I don't think is so bad actually.