Micheal Spinks/Tunney: Heavyweight accolades

[Willow The Wisp]

It's only overrated to those that approve of it. You're trying to trivialize the color line. That doesn't work with me.


Harry Greb fought everyone regardless of race. What was Tunney's excuse?

The only thing here that's overrated is Gene Tunney. You're rating him based on only beating white fighters. Whether he beat better fighters than Spinks is subjective. Larry Holmes would have beaten anyone on Tunney's resume even at 36.

If Tunney fought prime Mike Tyson he would have been smashed too.

No. To me, it's only overrated when it doesn't really apply. It's a big deal when it does. But regarding Gene Tunney, the color line doesn't apply.

I've never read anything about Gene Tunney expressing a reluctance to meet black fighters, ever.
Kid Norfolk would have been a good scalp to add, though he was aging when Gene arrived at the top at 175.
Jeff Clark likewise was older. Tiger Flowers would have been a good scalp, as would Battling Siki and Allentown Joe Gans.

Beyond that, not as much as you might think available when Gene Tunny was tearing em' up at 175.

James "Tut" Jackson, Lee Anderson, Alfred Baker, Jamaica Kid, Emmet "Silent" Puryear, Willie Henry, Battling Gahee, Clem Johnson, Carl Carter, Jack Taylor, Jose Teixidor, Paul Hams, Frank Crozier, Santiago Esparraguera, Eliseo Quintana, Battling Jim McCreary, George Robinson, Vic Alexander, Sunny Jim Williams, Billy Hooper, Jack McVey, Jim "Young Jack Johnson" Greene, Larry Estridge and others at that level.

Any number of these would have served to plump up Tunney’s record with African-American fighters, but this would have done little or nothing to enhance his quality of opposition, when he was beyond that level by 1920.
That's worth knowing my friend.

As for Tyson smashing up Tunney? With 25 pounds of muscle on the Marine he may have.

But then again, I figured he'd smash up Holyfield too.

[them_apples]

No. To me, it's only overrated when it doesn't really apply. It's a big deal when it does. But regarding Gene Tunney, the color line doesn't apply.

I've never read anything about Gene Tunney expressing a reluctance to meet black fighters, ever.
Kid Norfolk would have been a good scalp to add, though he was aging when Gene arrived at the top at 175.
Jeff Clark likewise was older. Tiger Flowers would have been a good scalp, as would Battling Siki and Allentown Joe Gans.

Beyond that, not as much as you might think available when Gene Tunny was tearing em' up at 175.

James "Tut" Jackson, Lee Anderson, Alfred Baker, Jamaica Kid, Emmet "Silent" Puryear, Willie Henry, Battling Gahee, Clem Johnson, Carl Carter, Jack Taylor, Jose Teixidor, Paul Hams, Frank Crozier, Santiago Esparraguera, Eliseo Quintana, Battling Jim McCreary, George Robinson, Vic Alexander, Sunny Jim Williams, Billy Hooper, Jack McVey, Jim "Young Jack Johnson" Greene, Larry Estridge and others at that level.

Any number of these would have served to plump up Tunney’s record with African-American fighters, but this would have done little or nothing to enhance his quality of opposition, when he was beyond that level by 1920.
That's worth knowing my friend.

As for Tyson smashing up Tunney? With 25 pounds of muscle on the Marine he may have.

But then again, I figured he'd smash up Holyfield too.

The problem with Tunney is because he looks like an ordinary white guy, people just assume he would be like an ordinary white guy today. The people that existed back then don’t exist anymore - so nobody can make a proper comparison. Every race had fighters that were tough as nails or mentally strong. There were generals in napoleons grande armee that were absolute stone cold killers without an ounce of fear in them and an iron resolve when it came to fighting. Its different than Jake Paul lol. There was a comment from napoleon himself making a joke about how he was happy he wasn’t killed at Austerlitz because dying at waterloo looks way better for the history books. And even expressed sadness that he didn’t die in a glorious manner lol. They said this type of **** with absolute seriousness.

what people forget is most of Tysons knockouts were a combination of fear and good match making. The best fighter he beat on a per night basis was Larry Holmes who had already retired and totally wasn’t prepared to beat Tyson. But Holmes was a great fighter and a real heavyweight so I rank it as Tysons best victory.

anyone who wasn’t scared of Mike either beat him or did well. Especially the ones that realized he was easy to tie up and even allowed it. His strategy was simple, launch fast punches from mid range at fighters who were running away from him. It’s not to say he wasn’t a good fighter - but there are a lot of good fighters who wouldn’t just come in to get steam rolled.

it’s one thing to say what happens if Mike lands, but on the counter end what happens if Mike doesn’t land? He loses, often enough.

I’m not a Tyson hater, I think he’s a good fighter - but his mythical status comes from spectacular knockouts against made to order, terrified oponents. Fear is an asset mind you! And he was terrifying.

[Slugfester]

If he was capable of avoiding 99.9 percent of Dempseys bombs then he has a chance to avoid Tysons. Tunney was a talent. You just need to read up about him more. What he did to Dempsey was a master class. If Dempsey connected on him with a really good shot, it would have been over. Likewise with Tyson same thing.

also remember one fighter is filmed in old fuzzy footage and the other fighter in clear color footage.

also factor in Spinks was set to retire, hadnt fought in a year and was lured in with a big payday. They loved him for not getting up in the first, its what sent the Tyson image in motion. But remember this wasnât Spinks with something to prove.

You are something of a moron all right. The Tyson image was not in motion before the Spinks KO, eh? Damn! Whew! Tunney evaded an old Dempsey, so he could probably get away from a prime Tyson too. Whew!

Tunney is one of my favorites, but he might as well be throwing spitballs at Tyson. He only has a chance if he can run like hell and get Tyson tired. Then his punches might actually hurt Mike.

[Marchegiano]

I actually rate Spinks above Tunney every chance I get. Tunney was the LHW champion? Alright then.

[JAB5239]

I actually rate Spinks above Tunney every chance I get. Tunney was the LHW champion? Alright then.

I never thought about it before, but why didn't Tunney ever fight for the lightheavyweight world championship?

[them_apples]

No. To me, it's only overrated when it doesn't really apply. It's a big deal when it does. But regarding Gene Tunney, the color line doesn't apply.

I've never read anything about Gene Tunney expressing a reluctance to meet black fighters, ever.
Kid Norfolk would have been a good scalp to add, though he was aging when Gene arrived at the top at 175.
Jeff Clark likewise was older. Tiger Flowers would have been a good scalp, as would Battling Siki and Allentown Joe Gans.

Beyond that, not as much as you might think available when Gene Tunny was tearing em' up at 175.

James "Tut" Jackson, Lee Anderson, Alfred Baker, Jamaica Kid, Emmet "Silent" Puryear, Willie Henry, Battling Gahee, Clem Johnson, Carl Carter, Jack Taylor, Jose Teixidor, Paul Hams, Frank Crozier, Santiago Esparraguera, Eliseo Quintana, Battling Jim McCreary, George Robinson, Vic Alexander, Sunny Jim Williams, Billy Hooper, Jack McVey, Jim "Young Jack Johnson" Greene, Larry Estridge and others at that level.

Any number of these would have served to plump up Tunney’s record with African-American fighters, but this would have done little or nothing to enhance his quality of opposition, when he was beyond that level by 1920.
That's worth knowing my friend.

As for Tyson smashing up Tunney? With 25 pounds of muscle on the Marine he may have.

But then again, I figured he'd smash up Holyfield too.

Double response, sry Wisp. I agree, also, fighters had very little say in who they fought. They would have to be on some anti racist crusade after they were already famous to pull it off. Boxing was mob controlled, and paid off by private interest groups like everything

[them_apples]

You are something of a moron all right. The Tyson image was not in motion before the Spinks KO, eh? Damn! Whew! Tunney evaded an old Dempsey, so he could probably get away from a prime Tyson too. Whew!

Tunney is one of my favorites, but he might as well be throwing spitballs at Tyson. He only has a chance if he can run like hell and get Tyson tired. Then his punches might actually hurt Mike.

This opinion is gathered because you watched Tyson coming up in clear high quality imagery. Tunney until recently has been a fuzzy under framed blur on the screen. How could you possibly ever come to a proper conclusion? I doubt you have put much effort into researching or watching Tunney.

and how am I a moron, you literally edited my post and stuck it in your sig. epitome of a moron lol