Top 10 greatest heavyweight contenders

[Willow The Wisp]

You forgot to mention the legenday pub fighter Joe Savage.

Yup. No Bartley Gorman, Roy Shaw, Lenny McClean, Micky Steeds, Wayne Barker, Paddy Mullins, Chris Bacon, Donny Adams, Chris Little, Paddy Monaghan, Henry Wharton, Mark Potter, Sven Hamer, Pat Mullings, Leo O'Reilly, Ricky Donahue, and the like made the cut. Tough guys to be sure, but....yaaa.

A guilty pleasre watching Smokin' Bert Cooper smoke out the BS that is unlicenced cobbles boxing on YouTube.

[Dr. Z]

>>> You are playing games with the dates to suit your agenda and have no names of histroains who saw both Jackson and Johsnon and said Johnson was better. I do. Siler was the referee for both men in the ring and said Jackson was better by long odds! I showed you the quote here. Who cares if you calim to own the book? You didn't bring up the point previously.

I challenge you to show me a name that said Johnson was bettter than Jackson who saw them both live. Game on. You're down 1-0.

Can you not grasp that I have never made any claims that historians rated Johnson above Jackson?Therefore there is no obligation for me to provide names? You stated and I copied your post,that "those who saw them" this was a deliberate misleading of the facts there was never any," those"!
There was one man Siler who passed away in1908,not 1905 as you stated,he died before Johnson's dominating victory over Burns and he never saw any of Johnson's subsequent victories because he was DEAD!
If that does not put a question mark on the validity of his opinion,I don't know what would!

As I said I have no obligation to provide names of experts that rank Johnson above Jackson but I will refer you to some, just to shut your ****** mouth up.

"My three top heavyweights are,in no order,Johnson,Louis ,Ali."Eddie Futch.
The On Line Magazine Ranker.
1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Tyson
5.Holmes
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8.Liston
9Holyfield.
10.Johnson
Ranker rates the top 25 heavyweights of all time Jackson is not on that list.
The Top 25 Greatest Heavyweight Champions of All Time (ranker.com)




Some older experts.

Nat Fleischer.
1.Jack Johnson
2,Jim Jeffries
3.Fitzsimmons
4.Dempsey
5.Corbett
7.Langford
8.Tunney
9.Schmeling
10.Marciano


Charley Rose
1.Langford
2.Johnson.
3 . Dempsey
4.Louis
5.Jeffries
6.Tunney
7.McVey
8.Marciano.
9.Corbett
10.Baer

Now without any undue research I could provide a dozen or more lists including the up dated Ring Magazine one compiled by experts and fighters Jackson does not feature on any of these lists whereas Johnson is on ALL OF THEM!
If you wish to challenge my statement all you have to do is produce a list compiled by an expert who is not Siler who rates Jackson above Johnson, it's as simple as that!

We both know you will not do so because no such list exists.
What you will do is respond with your typical misspelt ,illogical meandering, bluster, and bull ****.
What happened here is you got caught, by me,trying to say some experts who saw them both rated Jackson above Johnson.I pointed out Siler is the only man who held that view and went into print with it and his own opinion ,must be tempered with the fact that he never saw Johnson when he was the champion.There are no other experts who held that view which is what you implied in your usual dishonest manner. Now

1. Produce a list compiled by an acknowledged expert who rates Jackson aboveJohnson?

2.Produce a list, compiled by an expert which includes Jackson in its top ten all time heavyweights?

The clock has started ticking.
[/QUOTE]

NONE of those guys saw Jackson. Check their brithdays and when Jackson fought. DUH. I challenge you to produce one man who saw them both that said Jonhson was better than Jackson! You produce none. I caught you and dragged out your smelly BS to the matt.

1. Siler said Jackons was better than Johnson by long odds!

Dr. Z 1
Ivich 0


Tick, tick, tick ...

[Ivich]

Can you not grasp that I have never made any claims that historians rated Johnson above Jackson?Therefore there is no obligation for me to provide names? You stated and I copied your post,that "those who saw them" this was a deliberate misleading of the facts there was never any," those"!
There was one man Siler who passed away in1908,not 1905 as you stated,he died before Johnson's dominating victory over Burns and he never saw any of Johnson's subsequent victories because he was DEAD!
If that does not put a question mark on the validity of his opinion,I don't know what would!

As I said I have no obligation to provide names of experts that rank Johnson above Jackson but I will refer you to some, just to shut your ****** mouth up.

"My three top heavyweights are,in no order,Johnson,Louis ,Ali."Eddie Futch.
The On Line Magazine Ranker.
1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Tyson
5.Holmes
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8.Liston
9Holyfield.
10.Johnson
Ranker rates the top 25 heavyweights of all time Jackson is not on that list.
The Top 25 Greatest Heavyweight Champions of All Time (ranker.com)




Some older experts.

Nat Fleischer.
1.Jack Johnson
2,Jim Jeffries
3.Fitzsimmons
4.Dempsey
5.Corbett
7.Langford
8.Tunney
9.Schmeling
10.Marciano


Charley Rose
1.Langford
2.Johnson.
3 . Dempsey
4.Louis
5.Jeffries
6.Tunney
7.McVey
8.Marciano.
9.Corbett
10.Baer

Now without any undue research I could provide a dozen or more lists including the up dated Ring Magazine one compiled by experts and fighters Jackson does not feature on any of these lists whereas Johnson is on ALL OF THEM!
If you wish to challenge my statement all you have to do is produce a list compiled by an expert who is not Siler who rates Jackson above Johnson, it's as simple as that!

We both know you will not do so because no such list exists.
What you will do is respond with your typical misspelt ,illogical meandering, bluster, and bull ****.
What happened here is you got caught, by me,trying to say some experts who saw them both rated Jackson above Johnson.I pointed out Siler is the only man who held that view and went into print with it and his own opinion ,must be tempered with the fact that he never saw Johnson when he was the champion.There are no other experts who held that view which is what you implied in your usual dishonest manner. Now

1. Produce a list compiled by an acknowledged expert who rates Jackson aboveJohnson?

2.Produce a list, compiled by an expert which includes Jackson in its top ten all time heavyweights?

The clock has started ticking.

NONE of those guys saw Jackson. Check their brithdays and when Jackson fought. DUH. I challenge you to produce one man who saw them both that said Jonhson was better than Jackson! You produce none. I caught you and dragged out your smelly BS to the matt.

1. Siler said Jackons was better than Johnson by long odds!...


[/QUOTE]

Siler never saw Johnson when Johnson was champion how many times did Siler see Jackson? Jackson only fought in the US 5 times twice against nobodies twice when he was a physical wreck and got wiped out,so Siler had to evaluate Jackson on his 61 rounds snore bore against Corbett.

As I predicted you came back with your usual rubbish.Nonsensical crap from a nonsense poster.

[max baer]

NONE of those guys saw Jackson. Check their brithdays and when Jackson fought. DUH. I challenge you to produce one man who saw them both that said Jonhson was better than Jackson! You produce none. I caught you and dragged out your smelly BS to the matt.

1. Siler said Jackons was better than Johnson by long odds!...

Siler never saw Johnson when Johnson was champion how many times did Siler see Jackson? Jackson only fought in the US 5 times twice against nobodies twice when he was a physical wreck and got wiped out,so Siler had to evaluate Jackson on his 61 rounds snore bore against Corbett.

As I predicted you came back with your usual rubbish.Nonsensical crap from a nonsense poster.[/QUOTE]

ha ha ha you two love arguing. keep it up as i want to see who gets the better of the other you both are like lawyers with your evidence.

[mattdonnellon]

Mike Dooley, who fought Jackson, rated Johnson the best fighter he ever saw.

[Willie Pep 229]

Mike Dooley, who fought Jackson, rated Johnson the best fighter he ever saw.

"Fought" -- "Saw" -- two different experiences.

Maybe good insight, maybe an agenda.

Know anything more about Dooley?

I'll check out BoxRec.

[EDIT]

Well he certainly knew Peter Jackson.

He seems to have had Bob, Ruby Fitzsimmons' number.

A GUESS

It seems most likely Dooley only saw Johnson fight once, against Burns. (Unless of course he traveled to the US or France.)

That (Burns fight) was probably JJ at his very best.

Not sure how much power his testimonial should be given.

[mattdonnellon]

Dooley would have seen Jackson multiple times, they both frequented Foley's gym. Maybe he had adgenda, maybe not, everybody might have an agenda, I have none in this, just provoiding a boxing man that rated Johnson over Jackson. Dooley was a useful fighter.

[Willie Pep 229]

Dooley would have seen Jackson multiple times, they both frequented Foley's gym. Maybe he had adgenda, maybe not, everybody might have an agenda, I have none in this, just provoiding a boxing man that rated Johnson over Jackson. Dooley was a useful fighter.

He didn't need to see him at a gym. He fought him seven times.

[mattdonnellon]

Frankly, I can think nobody better qualified to judge their relative worth, he trained Peter in the early days, fought him multiple times, seconed him, had him in his corner and rated him by far the best heavyweight of his day. Dooley fought Slavin, Goddard, Fitz, Choynski and a multiple of other good men. He ran a gym, trained fighters, promoted them and knew his stuff. He would have had the oppertunity of seeing Johnson training, his fights with Felix, Lang and Burns. He gave a detailed account of his opinion.

[Ivich]

Siler never saw Johnson when Johnson was champion how many times did Siler see Jackson? Jackson only fought in the US 5 times twice against nobodies twice when he was a physical wreck and got wiped out,so Siler had to evaluate Jackson on his 61 rounds snore bore against Corbett.

As I predicted you came back with your usual rubbish.Nonsensical crap from a nonsense poster.

ha ha ha you two love arguing. keep it up as i want to see who gets the better of the other you both are like lawyers with your evidence.[/QUOTE]
What evidence has Dr Z presented?