Joe Frazier

[Stan Love]

If Ali and Foreman died in plane crashes on 1/1/1972 how long would Frazier been champ and who would have dethroned him?

[Willie Pep 229]

Lyle (73); Norton (74); a bum (75); Young (76); Holmes (77).

In that order. How many he gets by before they take him is . . . ???

Maybe Norton gets his due.

Pretty certain by 1977 Frazier is used up --> Holmes is too young, too big, too good a chin, too good a boxer; Holmes for sure.

P.S. Who might the "bum" be? If it is someone with a big punch he could "shock the world." (Shavers in '75 might have mistakenly looked like an easy fight.)

[QueensburyRules]

Lyle (73); Norton (74); a bum (75); Young (76); Holmes (77).

In that order. How many he gets by before they take him is . . . ???

Maybe Norton gets his due.

Pretty certain by 1977 Frazier is used up --> Holmes is too young, too big, too good a chin, too good a boxer; Holmes for sure.

P.S. Who might the "bum" be? If it is someone with a big punch he could "shock the world." (Shavers in '75 might have mistakenly looked like an easy fight.)

- - Pretty light schedule you made for Joe that makes him fresher in every subsequent year than he was in his moment then.

Lyle still up and coming, Norton having the perfect chin for Joe's left hook, a bum is a bum, Young a scalded cat, and skinny Lar with the fat mouth the perfect Ali motivation for Joe in an epic stoppage.

Finishes 77 with the Bugner fight to retire unbeaten as the greatest heavy ever unless Rocky fans want a fight.

[GhostofDempsey]

He likely remains champ until he meets up with Holmes or maybe even Jimmy Young who in my opinion beat Ali in '76. Norton and Frazier were coached by Futch. Norton was at his best when Futch was in his corner. I believe Futch would have remained in Frazier's corner if Joe and Ken are matched up. Futch would know all of Norton's weaknesses.

Shavers and Lyle always have a punchers chance, so I won't count them out completely.

[JAB5239]

He likely remains champ until he meets up with Holmes or maybe even Jimmy Young who in my opinion beat Ali in '76. Norton and Frazier were coached by Futch. Norton was at his best when Futch was in his corner. I believe Futch would have remained in Frazier's corner if Joe and Ken are matched up. Futch would know all of Norton's weaknesses.

Shavers and Lyle always have a punchers chance, so I won't count them out completely.

I'd give Lyle a real shot at winning. I don't think Shavers had the chin to hang in there with Joe, But Ron had a decent set of whiskers and could ****.

[them_apples]

well he's got a drinking problem, and after his win with Ali, the weeks long after party pretty much pulled him out of his prime. Same thing with Duran vs Leonard 1. These guys partied so hard after for weeks after winning, they gained weight and just lost something.

The Frazier Foreman busted up wasn't the same one Ali fought. Look at his physique and look at the overall temperature of the night - Foreman was big and clumsy, untested and Frazier was a top tier ****er well schooled by Futch. Frazier didn't think Foreman would be much.

As for all these guys, most of them Joe can beat because they don't have the style to beat Joe, which is why he was champ in the first place. The only real way to beat him is to push him like Foreman did (illegal) or just hit Joe so hard coming in he can't take it.

I don't think any on that list would beat a prime Joe, he beats them all up. Lyle won't hit Joe like Foreman did because Lyles only big punch was a straight right hand, and it only hurt Goerge because George was fighting so ******.

Holmes is a good fighter, this one could get tricky, but I still think Joe's style would get him.

Norton get's knocked out, but they did spar a lot so you never know, the way Norton sparred him in the footage we have shows he moved around a lot and pivoted. If Norton fights like he usually does its gonna be a one sided affair though.

[mrbig1]

Frazier cleaned out the division before the Ali fight. The Ali fight took a lot out of Frazier. He was no longer smoking Joe. That Smoking Joe with that fire and will to win could have held on for years to come. Norton was very good vs a boxer like Ali Young Holmes. But punchers were his weakness. Like Foreman Shavers Cooney. Quarry beat Lyle and Shavers.

[Willow The Wisp]

Nice hypothetical. Plane crash? God forbid.
I agree with the posts already made here. Frazier's title win would have come well before 72', probably in 67'. That sets up a long span before he'd be likely to get clipped without Ali and Foreman around, assuming neither beat him before meeting their maker new years day 72'.

We know that it won't be Old Eddie Machen, George Chuvalo, Marion Connors, Tony Doyle, Buster Mathis, Manuel Ramos, Oscar Bonavena, Dave Zyglewicz, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Bob Foster, Terry Daniels, Ron Stander or Joe Bugner; and I very much doubt it would've been done by old Sonny Liston, old Floyd Patterson, old Cleveland Williams, old Zora Folley, old Henry Cooper, Leotis Martin, Thad Spencer, Mac Foster, Jeff Merritt, Gregorio Peralta, Florida Al Jones, Jose Urtain, Jose Luis Garcia, Jack Bodell, Pedro Agusto, Karl Mildenbuger, Blue Lewis, Rudi Lubbers, **** Wipperman, Eduardo Corletti, Alberto Lovell, Boone Kirkman, Terry Hinke, Miguel Paez, Jean Pierre Coopman, Henry Clark, Larry Middletown, Bernd August, Richard Dunn, Chuck Wepner......

Those with any real shot at stopping the smokin' Joe express don't even show up until Lyle, Shavers, Norton and Young emerge as the early 70s become the mid 70s and Frazier's reign closes in on the 10 year mark.
Of those, I think Lyle has the best chance to unseat Joe. Beyond that; it's Larry Holmes in about 78', by which time Frazier is chasing Joe Louis' longevity record.

A big void left with the absence of Ali and Foreman.

[Willie Pep 229]

Foreman was " big and clumsy" against Frazier? I think not.