Joe Jennette vs. Jack Johnson 1913

[Dr. Z]

I don't have to prove anything about his purse regarding other fighters. You are welcome to look that up on your own. We've already provided to you numerous times the offers that he had accepted that were pulled through no fault of his own. Unless you are claiming that didn't happen, I don't think you have an argument here. He did in fact accept fights with all of these fighters.

He backed out of a contract for Langford that was so piss poor that even the newspapers reported that it was piss poor. He then accepted a number of fights with Langford. One Langford backed out of, one Langford couldn't fulfill his end of the bargain, and one that was pulled by the promoter. Those are the facts. If that makes you mad, then show proof otherwise. If you can't, I don't know what to tell you.

And I have show you numerous other offers in non USA venues that Johnson was not serious about / did not sign! You are backtracking and fleeing the realty of what Johnson accepted. Why?? Afraid of saying he was offered more for Langford and Jeannette but fought far lesser talent for less? He was chined by a super middle weight, according to many lost to another in a fight ruled by a new draw box rec, and barely escaped from KO vs a journeyman in a title defense. Oh he fouled in other title defenses too to mentioned. This happened.

It looks like you want me to do all the work and reject the facts that I find.

[travestyny]

And I have show you numerous other offers in non USA venues that Johnson was not serious about / did not sign! You are backtracking and fleeing the realty of what Johnson accepted. Why?? Afraid of saying he was offered more for Langford and Jeannette but fought far lesser talent for less? He was chined by a super middle weight, according to many lost to another in a fight ruled by a new draw box rec, and barely escaped from KO vs a journeyman in a title defense. Oh he fouled in other title defenses too to mentioned. This happened.

It looks like you want me to do all the work and reject the facts that I find.

I haven't seen anything from you. I have no reason to backtrack about anything, so I have no idea what you are talking about. The fact remains that he accepted 3 fights with Langford, 2 fights with Jeannette, one fight that I know of with McVey.

Not sure what this has to do with him being "chinned by a super middleweight." I think this has more to do with him beating the absolute tar out of your hero, Jeffries. That was an old down home asswhoopin. I can understand why it upsets you, but that's no reason to ignore what has been proven many times here.

[Dr. Z]

I haven't seen anything from you. I have no reason to backtrack about anything, so I have no idea what you are talking about. The fact remains that he accepted 3 fights with Langford, 2 fights with Jeannette, one fight that I know of with McVey.

Not sure what this has to do with him being "chinned by a super middleweight." I think this has more to do with him beating the absolute tar out of your hero, Jeffries. That was an old down home asswhoopin. I can understand why it upsets you, but that's no reason to ignore what has been proven many times here.

Yeah, he beat an old man who lost a lot of weight and had not fought in six years. End of.

His results v super middle weights speak for themselves. The heavyweight champion of the world was KTFO out in 3 rounds vs. one, should have lost a narrow decision according to primary sources vs. another and was floored by another. Yes-- that happened. He did not fight prime versions of Jeannette, Langford or Mcvey. We know this and we know why you won't get me the facts that I ask. Too much work you say?

A fight vs a prime version of Jeanette, McVey or Langford would have proven a lot..and he might lose mind you. A fight vs white guys in Gunboat Smith of Luther McCarty were better than he beat as champion from 1909- 1915. The color line ha! For Jack Johnson it was the ability line!

[Willie Pep 229]

Can anyone produce a timeline for fights offered, and fights offered and accepted but canceled, for Jack Johnson as champion?

I can only off the top of my head feel confident that there was a promise to fight Langford in London after he fought Tommy Burns.

That fight fell through because once Champion the offered purse was no longer acceptable and needed to be renegotiated, and rightly so IMO.

It wasn't and he didn't.

Then there is also above, an uncited news article, that suggests there was some kind of agreement between Jeannette and JJ, but there is only speculation as to why it didn't happen. (There is a venue named but no year; assumption 1912.)

Can anyone construct a reasonable timeline of offers and offers accepted but canceled?

I read claims of three offers here, two offers there, cancelations and prohibitions, but can't visual the entire picture. I need a chronology, need a timeline.

Circa dates, intended venues, commissions, promoters names?

Right now it's all too nebulous to grasp the big picture; which to form an opinion.

[travestyny]

Yeah, he beat an old man who lost a lot of weight and had not fought in six years. End of.

His results v super middle weights speak for themselves. The heavyweight champion of the world was KTFO out in 3 rounds vs. one, should have lost a narrow decision according to primary sources vs. another and was floored by another. Yes-- that happened. He did not fight prime versions of Jeannette, Langford or Mcvey. We know this and we know why you won't get me the facts that I ask. Too much work you say?

A fight vs a prime version of Jeanette, McVey or Langford would have proven a lot..and he might lose mind you. A fight vs white guys in Gunboat Smith of Luther McCarty were better than he beat as champion from 1909- 1915. The color line ha! For Jack Johnson it was the ability line!

I never said anything was too much work. I said that you should do it yourself instead of asking someone to do the work for you.

You are welcome to your opinion, but this doesn't seem to be about anything more than a hatred for the man. Jeffries was in shape quite awhile before the fight, if I remember correctly. Maybe he should have fought Johnson before he retired if it was going to be too tough of a task later, but he ducked him. He was also offered a lot of money to fight McVey, but he ducked him as well. So the same shlt you throw at Johnson, you can throw at your idol, can't you?

Johnson had a great boxing career and is one of the all time greats. I don't think that can be taken away no matter how upset you are over him beating up your idol. You also can't change that he offered all of those guys fights. It is what it is, frankly.

[Dr. Z]

I never said anything was too much work. I said that you should do it yourself instead of asking someone to do the work for you.

You are welcome to your opinion, but this doesn't seem to be about anything more than a hatred for the man. Jeffries was in shape quite awhile before the fight, if I remember correctly. Maybe he should have fought Johnson before he retired if it was going to be too tough of a task later, but he ducked him. He was also offered a lot of money to fight McVey, but he ducked him as well. So the same shlt you throw at Johnson, you can throw at your idol, can't you?

Johnson had a great boxing career and is one of the all time greats. I don't think that can be taken away no matter how upset you are over him beating up your idol. You also can't change that he offered all of those guys fights. It is what it is, frankly.

Dude, I don't care about Jeffries. He was old, had not fought his six years and barely sparred for the contest. He should have fought and beat Johnson earlier in his prime and judging by the common opponents fought and Johnson's numerous losses and draws to folks like Griffin, Hart, and Choynski, and a past his best Everett and company it is logical to assume so. I am not talking about that 1910 fight except to say that the spectators at ring side said Jeffries was a shell of what he was. Bob Fitzsimmons called Jeffries a quarter of the fight he fought. End of.

I am taking about what JOHNSON was offered to fight Langford, Jeannette, and McVey and what amount he did fight O'brien, Tony Ross, Al Kaufman, Jim Battling Johnson and Frank Moran for. Got it?

Keep deflecting what I am saying. It is less than what he was offered to fight the big three. You can not look this up because you know I'm right. You just can not admit a bad thing about your idol and let's be frank on why you are defending him.

Aside from boxing he is a cult man who beat up women an assaulted a sickly 120 pound man. That is why I don't care for him.

[travestyny]

Dude, I don't care about Jeffries. He was old, had not fought his six years and barely sparred for the contest. He should have fought and beat Johnson earlier in his prime and judging by the common opponents fought and Johnson's numerous losses and draws to folks like Griffin, Hart, and Choynski, and a past his best Everett and company it is logical to assume so. I am not talking about that 1910 fight except to say that the spectators at ring side said Jeffries was a shell of what he was. Bob Fitzsimmons called Jeffries a quarter of the fight he fought. End of.

I am taking about what JOHNSON was offered to fight Langford, Jeannette, and McVey and what amount he did fight O'brien, Tony Ross, Al Kaufman, Jim Battling Johnson and Frank Moran for. Got it?

Keep deflecting what I am saying. It is less than what he was offered to fight the big three. You can not look this up because you know I'm right. You just can not admit a bad thing about your idol and let's be frank on why you are defending him.

Aside from boxing he is a cult man who beat up women an assaulted a sickly 120 pound man. That is why I don't care for him.

I doubt what you say about Jeffries and likely so does he, since he admit that he could never have beat Johnson in his prime.

No one is deflecting what you are saying. We just see through you, frankly. Anyone who brings up fighters like Choynski as if Johnson losing to him was a big deal when we all know that Choynski was one of the fighters who actually taught a young Johnson how to fight clearly has an agenda.


As I said numerous times, go and find the purses and add them to this thread. You don't need people to do the work for you. Stop being lazy. No one is going to do your work for you when we already know that Johnson agreed to fight all of them. We have the proof. If you want more, just let us know and we'd be happy to share the proof with you.

You can't even admit what is right in front of your face. No matter how much you hate the man, these facts can't be changed.

[QueensburyRules]

I doubt what you say about Jeffries and likely so does he, since he admit that he could never have beat Johnson in his prime.

No one is deflecting what you are saying. We just see through you, frankly. Anyone who brings up fighters like Choynski as if Johnson losing to him was a big deal when we all know that Choynski was one of the fighters who actually taught a young Johnson how to fight clearly has an agenda.


As I said numerous times, go and find the purses and add them to this thread. You don't need people to do the work for you. Stop being lazy. No one is going to do your work for you when we already know that Johnson agreed to fight all of them. We have the proof. If you want more, just let us know and we'd be happy to share the proof with you.

You can't even admit what is right in front of your face. No matter how much you hate the man, these facts can't be changed.

- - It is said that the contract would be signed on Monday, now being said noone...NOONE never signed no contract, and thus never fought...

[travestyny]

- - It is said that the contract would be signed on Monday, now being said noone...NOONE never signed no contract, and thus never fought...

Yes, and we know what happened. The fight was pulled by the promoter through no fault of Johnson.

[Willie Pep 229]

So now we know the truth - Jack Johnson abducted a white woman just to get out fighting Langford. What a coward, what ducker.