Where do you rank Vitaly Klitschko all time amongst heavyweights?

[Marchegiano]

There is no proof of this claim Z wants to make. It's been proven untrue. At the very least, there is no evidence to support it. As a fighter, I wouldn't want to try and hold a heavy bolt on my glove no matter what advantage it gave me. First because I would fear being caught cheating, and second because it would slow my speed and explosiveness.

Wouldn't also risk breaking your hand? Opening your hand a bit changes the angle of your knuckles and so changes the angel the force is received by your hand bones ... No?

[JAB5239]

I don't know about Tunney being a great HW. Isn't he mostly a LHW? Great there, but beating a well loved champion then retiring is a fine legacy but isn't much to go off as a divisional man.

Willard was okay, I wouldn't call him great. ... I'd put V over Willy D.

Tunney isn't in my top 20 either, but he beat the best heavyweight twice, something Vits never accomplished.

[JAB5239]

Wouldn't also risk breaking your hand? Opening your hand a bit changes the angle of your knuckles and so changes the angel the force is received by your hand bones ... No?

Absolutely. I Agee 100%.

[QueensburyRules]

Wouldn't also risk breaking your hand? Opening your hand a bit changes the angle of your knuckles and so changes the angel the force is received by your hand bones ... No?

- - Tried out the Dempsey big bolt theory on my heavybag, thankfully with a careful effort. You'd bust up your hands in a lot of pain. Of course he was accused of using plaster too, also debunked by Cleveland Williams and his trainer back in the day with a simulation.

[QueensburyRules]

Tunney isn't in my top 20 either, but he beat the best heavyweight twice, something Vits never accomplished.

- - Insert Lewie retired because he mommy won't let Lewie rematch Vit...

[JAB5239]

- - Insert Lewie retired because he mommy won't let Lewie rematch Vit...

Not sure I get your point. So Lewis retired, big deal. He did after busting up and winning his fight with Vits. Why didn't Vit rematch Byrd in 2004 when they were rated 1 and 2 instead of Danny Williams? Maybe Vits just didn't fancy his chances.

[Dr. Z]

The fallacy of Dempsey's gloves being loaded has already been disproven. I think Dempsey is almost as overrated as Vits, but he still beat the champ to become the champ. Also, I think it's rather dubious you want to take credit from Dempsey for beating Willard who was 2 and a half years out of the ring, and take credit from Dempsey for losing to Tunney who was out of the ring for just over 3 years himself.

Willard claims it was not the glove that was the problem it was a bolt on metal outside of it that was concealed and perhaps tapped on the out side the glove and concealed by the thumb. Jack ran like the thief in a night after beat the 37 1/2 year old Willard who had not fought in 3 1/2 years exiting the ring without escort in hurry. Why? Was he trying to get rid of the evidence? Strange antics for a man who just won the heavyweight championship of the world, don't you think? Willard found a bolt in the ring and kept it his entire life.

I'm not taking any credit away from Dempsey just stating the facts and film. What was Dempsey best win in your opinion and was it clean? Names are requested.

[Ivich]

Willard claims it was not the glove that was the problem it was a bolt on metal outside of it that was concealed and perhaps tapped on the out side the glove and concealed by the thumb. Jack ran like the thief in a night after beat the 37 1/2 year old Willard who had not fought in 3 1/2 years exiting the ring without escort in hurry. Why? Was he trying to get rid of the evidence? Strange antics for a man who just won the heavyweight championship of the world, don't you think? Willard found a bolt in the ring and kept it his entire life.

I'm not taking any credit away from Dempsey just stating the facts and film. What was Dempsey best win in your opinion and was it clean? Names are requested.

What a crock of ****! Willard's second Walter Monaghan was in Dempsey's dressing room when Jimmy Deforest bandaged Dempsey's hands,so was Nat Fleischer. the men were gloved up in the ring.The photo of a supposed bolt found in the ring was in fact a cigar butt. The men shook hands both before and after being gloved up and Jess didn't notice this bolt?
Willard was out of it when the fight was stopped,he was in no condition to go looking for foreign objects.
You aren't taking any credit away from Dempsey?Just accusing him of carrying a bolt in his hand during the fight! If Dempsey had a bolt in his glove and had surreptiously dropped in without those thousands of fans noticing it [onlyWillard detecting it!] Why would he need to leave the ring? Dempsey left the ring because he was under the impression the fight was over.

Even by your moronic standards this is one of the most ridiculous posts ever made on a boxing forum!

[QueensburyRules]

Not sure I get your point. So Lewis retired, big deal. He did after busting up and winning his fight with Vits. Why didn't Vit rematch Byrd in 2004 when they were rated 1 and 2 instead of Danny Williams? Maybe Vits just didn't fancy his chances.

- - Already been proven that you're utterly timeline illiterate, perhaps Evermore...Evermore

[JAB5239]

Willard claims it was not the glove that was the problem it was a bolt on metal outside of it that was concealed and perhaps tapped on the out side the glove and concealed by the thumb. Jack ran like the thief in a night after beat the 37 1/2 year old Willard who had not fought in 3 1/2 years exiting the ring without escort in hurry. Why? Was he trying to get rid of the evidence? Strange antics for a man who just won the heavyweight championship of the world, don't you think? Willard found a bolt in the ring and kept it his entire life.

I'm not taking any credit away from Dempsey just stating the facts and film. What was Dempsey best win in your opinion and was it clean? Names are requested.

You're not taking away any credit?

Beating Willard alone is better than anything Vits did, because he beat the actual champion. Vits never beat the champ nor the #1 contender.

You want to try and claim a fighter from one era is better than another from an older era. Sorry but I'm not hearing that. It's an impossible triangle theory to prove.

Not trying to take away any credit!!