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Lol, I like it. There is something to that. When Marciano retired April27, 1956, Who was there to beat him?
Moore? He'd been there, done that.
Truth is that Marciano era contenders were aging out in 1956 and the next generation was yet to take over top spots in the ratings at the start of the year, when Rocky Marciano made his decision to retire (Liston, Patterson, Machen, Folley, Williams, Harris, etc.)
Patterson wasn't a compelling challenger until After he beat Jackson and Moore for the Vacant title.
So who would've represented unfinished business?
Hurricane Jackson? Nah. Jimmy Slade had edged him in December.
Bob Baker? Still top 10, beat Nino Valdez in December but lost to Jackson in February.
Nino Valdez? On the slide and Just got beat by 12 fight vet Eddie Machen weeks before Marciano announced, and to Moore the year prior.
Bob Satterfield? 21 losses at the time, so little interest when Marciano retired.
John Holman? 10 losses and a recent 1st round KO loss to Satterfield.
Willie Pastrano? A lightheavyweight with little power who came up short against Roy Harris the following year.
César Brion? Retired before Marciano did
Julio Mederos? Lost 3 in a row in 55'.
Johnny Summerlin? Would drop 3 in a row in 56'.
Earl Walls? Retired just before Marciano did.
Billy Giliam? Ditto.
Hien Ten Hoff? Ditto.
Jack Gardner? Ditto.
James J. Parker? Lost to Moore in 56'
Jimmy Slade? Lost to Patterson Dec 55'
Heinz Neuhaus? Lost to James J Parker by KO the month Marciano retired.
Franco Cavicchi? Blew a shot when dropping a fight to Neuhaus end of 55'.
Joe Bygraves? Taken care of by 12 fight Johansson.
Kitione Lave? Blew any chance losing to Jack Gardner end of 55'
Johnny Williams? Dropped 3 and Done in 56'
All quality fighters at their best.
But Marciano retired because his back hurt, but he was running from nobody. His work was Done!Comment
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I don't think past it negates better. Moore, Charles, and Walcott were better boxers, hell, Roland was too. I don't know about ****el, Rex, or any other peer group boxer because I really don't know much about them period. Little video of the era and finding old time articles online isn't the easiest adventure.
Anyway, point is one only needs to watch Charles vs Marciano to realize the better boxer lost. You can see Walcott is a better boxer. Moore was better during their fight too. They got beaten because Marciano always finds a way. He always exploits something to devastating effect and I think a lot of fans are too quick to disregard that for two reasons; (1) because they can think of a logical reason to excuse the act and (2) Rocky does basically everything the wrong way and a lot of people can't get over the idea that doing things wrong in boxing means you're doomed to lose against a man who does everything right well.
If Charles was younger, or fresher given they're actually close in age, he still would have lost. He would have given Rocky a beating and lost anyway because it's not a lack of speed, reflexes, or even chin that got him beat. He shows all those qualities against Marciano as he was. Same for the usual names I see. I don't think Walcott got KO'd so heavily because he lacked chin ... old man chin as they say ... Rocky was tagging him hard the whole fight to no effect and he was punishing Rocky the entire time. One step ahead until he wasn't. I think that KO perfectly encapsulates who Rocky was. The same punch, the same trick, that drops Rocky early ends up being Joe's undoing later. That was patience, timing, power, speed, reflexes and accuracy. Rocky didn't have it most of the fight but he had it right then, right there, and that was all he needed to make Jersey look dead. That doesn't mean if only Joe was quicker, or had better reflexes, or any detailed thing that comes with youth would have saved him.
On that thought, how about that? Instead of using the, no offense, very tired age excuse, why don't you tell me specifically what quality had dropped from these men's younger days that would have stopped Rocky from doing what he did to them? To my knowledge Archie was doing his block with his elbows bit just fine until his elbows got to injured to continued doing it well. If only he was a few year younger then he would have had elbows that could handle the trauma? His blood vessels and such would have held up then? If Walcott was only fresher Rocky wouldn't have out timed him because timing and age are linked? You get me?
I don't mean to be offensive and if I am I apologize. I respect this section immensely and don't even do my wrestler promo trolling here because I respect you and everyone else here. Including Z despite him seemingly being the black sheep. He is knowledgeable and I respect that. So please don't take this as snarky or disrespect. I respectfully disagree with the era was old though excusing Marciano's 0.
I wonder, why no mention Layne, Lastarza, or Don? I know they were considered good challengers when Marciano fought them. I would be interested in knowing more about them, even if it's just another fan's opinion. Or the guy he fought for the title eliminator. I confess, I forgot his name.
You can probably tell, but yes, most of my opinion on Marciano is formed by the very little footage there is of him ... on Youtube. I would like to know more about him and the era but I don't really know how. I watched a documentary a while ago but it was just fanboyism. Not bad just not very enlightening either. It made me wonder why people call him small. In his era he seems normal sized.
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All fighters are in their prime, (whenever you think that was).
1950s rules with the neutral corner rule enforced.
Results reflected for the down column:
..........................A..........B...........C ...........D.
A. Dempsey......X..........KO 12...W 15.....KO 13
B. Frazier..........X..........X...........KOBy 7..W 15
C. Marciano......X.........X...........X...........KO By12
D. Tyson............X.........X...........X.......... .X
Records:
Dempsey. 3-0 (2)
Frazier. 1-2 (0)
Marciano. 1-2 (1)
Tyson. 1-2 (1)Comment
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- - I'm thinkin' one of our obsessive math wizzes should average the height, weight, and reaches of every heavy champ in history along with their championship rounds so we could have a fair round robin of average distance with each heavy locked into his style in his day wearing his wraps and gloves.
Go for it...
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