Duran vs Barkley should be studied for its mastery

[Willie Pep 229]

You're splitting hairs again...passed it and washed up is saying the same thing. Take this L like a man for once in your pathetic life. LOL

Who cares if Torres and Benvenuti are HOF'ers, so is Gatti! LOL

Tiger didn't beat any ATG fighters at their best. Not to disparage him, but HOF does not = ATG. Torres certainly didn't beat any great fighters, and he ducked Bob Foster. He was more famous for his friendship with Ali and the book he wrote about him. Certainly not for his resume or fighting prowess.

I never claimed Barkley was great, but you painted yourself into a corner claiming Hearns was "passed it" at age 30 while insisting Torres was prime at age 30. Take that L IronHamster, lol.

No, Gatti never matched Nino's output.

Benvenuti went 63-0-0 and the Super Welterweight title until he got jobbed in Korea.

He then won two of three from Grifith. When he lost to Monzon he had fought seven of the top ten Ring ranked fighters avaiable.

He extended Monzon to 12 rounds and gave Monzon the worst round of his title career. The tenth round of fight 1. This he did when he was well past it.

[IronDanHamza]

No, Gatti never matched Nino's output.

Benvenuti went 63-0-0 and the Super Welterweight title until he got jobbed in Korea.

He then won two of three from Grifith. When he lost to Monzon he had fought seven of the top ten Ring ranked fighters avaiable.

He extended Monzon to 12 rounds and gave Monzon the worst round of his title career. The tenth round of fight 1. This he did when he was well past it.

The guy's clueless mate. Has no idea about any of those fighters from that era and that's very apparent.

He said that Joey Giardello was washed up in 1959 and close to retirement even though he was in his prime and 8 years before retirment.

Monzon is one of the greatest MW's of all time and Benvenuti gave him his hardest fight I thought, that was voted fight of the year that year.

[GhostofDempsey]

The guy's clueless mate. Has no idea about any of those fighters from that era and that's very apparent.

He said that Joey Giardello was washed up in 1959 and close to retirement even though he was in his prime and 8 years before retirment.

Monzon is one of the greatest MW's of all time and Benvenuti gave him his hardest fight I thought, that was voted fight of the year that year.

I said Gardello was washed up in the fight they had in '65.

Who did Monzon beat to be considered one of the best MW of all time? A passed it Napoles? A passed it Benvenuti? A passed it Griffith? You're clinging to your old yellowed copies of Ring Magazine from the 70's to get your outdated information. Talking about a passed it Hearns while thinking Napoles, Benvenuti or Griffith were PRIME against Monzon, LOL. Clown show.

[GhostofDempsey]

No, Gatti never matched Nino's output.

Benvenuti went 63-0-0 and the Super Welterweight title until he got jobbed in Korea.

He then won two of three from Grifith. When he lost to Monzon he had fought seven of the top ten Ring ranked fighters avaiable.

He extended Monzon to 12 rounds and gave Monzon the worst round of his title career. The tenth round of fight 1. This he did when he was well past it.

My contention is that HOF just doesn't carry the weight it used to, especially when we consider some of the fighters who were entered and some who never made it. Jose Torres and Gatti is in it but no Ceferino Garcia or Marvin Johnson?

Benvenuti squandered too much of his career fighting in Europe. By IronDan's standards he too was passed it or washed up at the age of 30 when he fought Griffith and 31 when he fought Tiger. We can't have it both ways. If Hearns is "passed it" at 30, then Torres can't be prime at 30, given they had about the same amount of fights respectively.

[IronDanHamza]

I said Gardello was washed up in the fight they had in '65.

Erm, no, you didn't say that actually. You didn't mention anything about 1965 when you said that.

I said he beat Giardello, you then said that he beat Giardello when he was washed up and close to retirement.

And you said that because you went on Boxrec and saw they fought in 65 and didn't realise they fought in 59

You have no idea what you're talking about mate it's absolutely clear as day.

Who did Monzon beat to be considered one of the best MW of all time? A passed it Napoles? A passed it Benvenuti? A passed it Griffith? You're clinging to your old yellowed copies of Ring Magazine from the 70's to get your outdated information. Talking about a passed it Hearns while thinking Napoles, Benvenuti or Griffith were PRIME against Monzon, LOL. Clown show.

Oh right, so Monzon isn't one of the greatest Middleweights of all time now? What a moron you are.

Who said those fighters were in their prime, you clown? Did I say that?

But for what it's worth, when Monzon fought them;

Griffith was ranked #1 at MW.

Benvenuti was ranked #1 at MW

On top of that;

Valdez was ranked #1 at MW

Mundine was ranked #1 at MW

Moyer was ranked #3 at MW

Licata was ranked #2 at MW

Boutier was ranked #4 at MW


And there's other top ranked guys he beat aswell.

So there's your answer you retard.


Now go ahead and list the Top 10 ranked fighters Barkley beat? This is the 5th time of asking.

Either name them or run along.

[IronDanHamza]

My contention is that HOF just doesn't carry the weight it used to, especially when we consider some of the fighters who were entered and some who never made it. Jose Torres and Gatti is in it but no Ceferino Garcia or Marvin Johnson?

Benvenuti squandered too much of his career fighting in Europe. By IronDan's standards he too was passed it or washed up at the age of 30 when he fought Griffith and 31 when he fought Tiger. We can't have it both ways. If Hearns is "passed it" at 30, then Torres can't be prime at 30, given they had about the same amount of fights respectively.

Do you understand the concept of aging and how human beings age at different rates or are you really a total dribbling retard?

Do you know who Wilfred Benitez is? Do you give Carlos Herrera credit for beating him? Because Benitez was 28 years old when he beat him.

Two years younger than Tommy Hearns was when he fought Barkley. Was Benitez passed it at that time?

[Hooded Terror]

Duke McKenzie has 3 major world titles in 3 different weight classes.

Adrien Broner has 4 major world titles in 4 weight classes.

Who did they actually beat? Who did Barkely actually beat?

So let's name the Top 10 ranked fighters he beat.

If he's not average.

Read into my statement with just a tad more finesse. He is not an average fighter given his connections, his opportunities, and his title wins. Such is not "average". He faced an array of contenders and major world titlists. "Average fighters" don't get that far. Average fighters don't hit the top ten. Or move between weight classes, typically, with Barkley's success, likelihood aside.

I never said he was great or elite.



.

[IronDanHamza]

Read into my statement with just a tad more finesse. He is not an average fighter given his connections, his opportunities, and his title wins. Such is not "average". He faced an array of contenders and major world titlists. "Average fighters" don't get that far. Average fighters don't hit the top ten. Or move between weight classes, typically, with Barkley's success, likelihood aside.

I never said he was great or elite.

If I had my druthers, there's be a 15-round distance, one, maximum two belts and sanctioning bodies that didn't pick favorites, to say nothing of fighters that actually fight.


.

Ok but let's use common sense here and decipher that obviously by "average" I'm talking in the sense of the elite level.

Obviously he's not literally average because you can't even be a professional fighter with a winning record if you're an average human being but that's not what we're talking about here, is it? We are talking about in the grand scheme on things.

In that sense Barkley is totally average. He lost to every half decent fighter he fought outside of Hearns.

How many Top 10 ranked fighters did he beat?

[GhostofDempsey]

Do you understand the concept of aging and how human beings age at different rates or are you really a total dribbling retard?

Do you know who Wilfred Benitez is? Do you give Carlos Herrera credit for beating him? Because Benitez was 28 years old when he beat him.

Two years younger than Tommy Hearns was when he fought Barkley. Was Benitez passed it at that time?

The fact that you are now quoting me 2x to my one shows your desperation. Now you want to move the goal post yet again. You have some insight to their respective health and DNA to determine who aged more rapidly at the same rate of time? Hearns only suffered 2 stoppage losses by the time he fought Barkley, Torres one stoppage loss when he fought Tiger, so again, even wear and tear. LOL, give it up IronHamster.

Torres was 27 when he got knocked out by Florentino Fernandez, does Fernandez get credit for that KO? At least Hearns was stopped by Leonard and Hagler prior to fighting Barkley, Torres got stopped by a guy who was knocked out 16 times in his career. Hearns was far more dangerous at 30 than Torres was.

[IronDanHamza]

The fact that you are now quoting me 2x to my one shows your desperation. Now you want to move the goal post yet again. You have some insight to their respective health and DNA to determine who aged more rapidly at the same rate of time? Hearns only suffered 2 stoppage losses by the time he fought Barkley, Torres one stoppage loss when he fought Tiger, so again, even wear and tear. LOL, give it up IronHamster.

Torres was 27 when he got knocked out by Florentino Fernandez, does Fernandez get credit for that KO? At least Hearns was stopped by Leonard and Hagler prior to fighting Barkley, Torres got stopped by a guy who was knocked out 16 times in his career. Hearns was far more dangerous at 30 than Torres was.

No, it doesn't show that. It's two separate points. I have literally not moved the goalpost at any point of this conversation. Do you actually understand what that saying means? I think you're struggling with the English language mightily here.

No, I'm asking you if you understand the concept of aging. I don't think you do.

You keep citing age as a number. Why? Have I not explained to you multiple times that people age of faster or slower rates? One man could be totally finished by age 28 (Wilfred Benitez) and another could be just hitting their prime at 35 (Bernard Hopkins)

Yes I absolutely give credit to Fernandez for beating Torres at age 27. Why wouldn't I? What is your point because I don't think you have one

Since you didn't answer I'll ask again;

Do you know who Wilfred Benitez is? Do you give Carlos Herrera credit for beating him? Because Benitez was 28 years old when he beat him.

Two years younger than Tommy Hearns was when he fought Barkley. Was Benitez passed it at that time?