Duran vs Barkley should be studied for its mastery

[GhostofDempsey]

Ok so memory served me incorrectly as I thought the first fight happened in 1991 and the second 1992 but having checked back the first fight was in 88.

So whilst he wasn’t as far gone as my memory served he, he was still wasn’t in his prime in 1988.

Regardless, even with that Hearns win, he still is an average fighter. Other than that win over Hearns, who has he beat? How many ranked fighters did he beat?

Loads of fighters managed to get one good win during their careers. Loads of average fighters.

Zahir Raheem beat Erik Morales before Pacquaio did. Is he better than average?

Jeff Horn beat Manny Pacquaio, before Pacquaio beat Thurman. is Horn better than average? does Crawford get some kind of major credit because he smashed Horn who’d beaten an ATG in Pacquaio?

Barkley is an average fighter. Duran gets credit for it like I said because he was old and undersized. But it’s not some “masterful” performance. It’s a great little man beating an average bigger man.

Horn got a gift, let's not pretend that wasn't a robbery. Casual.

[Hooded Terror]

Iran Barkley was not a flashy fighter but he paid his dues on a bumpy road that ultimately saw him win 3 major World titles in 3 different weight classes. I do not know of any average fighters that have pulled off such an above average result.

[them_apples]

Aren’t they? He’s literally being laughably compared to ATG middleweights in this very thread.

Well you just said it yourself, didn’t you? You’d think a Middleweight would beat a Lightweight. Well yeah I would, if the Middleweight wasn’t an average fighter.

That version of Duran isn’t going to beat any top tier Middleweights regardless of how great he was so it’s almost entirely down to Barkley being average.

Duran still deserves credit for his win because at the end of the day he was old and small he had no business winning an actual legitimate belt at that weight class coming from 118 lbs as a professional so he gets all the credit in the world for that achievement but let’s not act like beating Barkley is some great feat because it absolutely is not.

the right middleweight he's gonna beat.

like all the middleweights today lol

[IronDanHamza]

You said Hearns was passed it, now you're mincing words to squirm your way out of admitting you're wrong. Hearns and Torres were the same age when they fought Barkley and Tiger respectively. They had about the same amount of fights as well. Torres was never great, he ducked Bob Foster and other contenders. Regardless, he can't be prime at 30 while calling Hearns well past his prime at 30. Benvenuti is never mentioned in conversations when we discuss great middleweights, let's not try to pump him up now that you are losing an argument. LOL

Giardello...he lost to Joey in two of their contests. Guess who else beat Joey...Tiger Jones, Spider Webb, Joey Giambra, and a bunch of other fringe contenders. Remind who Joey's biggest wins were again, outside of Tiger? Was it the washed up Robinson or the washed up Fullmer? LOL.

You don't give me choices, you're not dictating anything on here. You can't even get your facts straight or admit when you are wrong.

I said he was passed it because he was passed it. I never once said he was washed up. You're aware that passed it and washed up are not the same thing?

I don't care what age they were. Torres was in his prime at age 30 and Hearns wasn't. I'm not sure where you are lost? Benitez was finished before age 30 and Hopkins didn't hit his prime until 35. Fighters age differently. If we are going to pretend that Tommy Hearns was in his prime in 1988 then you're just objectively wrong about that.

Where did I say Torres was great? I said Torres was a prime HOFer, which, he was.

Benvenuti was a HOF'er, in his prime. That is a fact.

He lost to Giardello twice, ok...And????? I said he beat Giardello in his prime. Which, he did. You then responded by saying Giardello was washed up and "soon or immediately retired" because you have no clue what you're talking about.

I listed 4 wins over prime HOFers.

Now go ahead and name me the prime HOFers Barkley beat.

Then, name the Top 10 ranked fighters he beat.

Go ahead or shut the fuck up.

[IronDanHamza]

Horn got a gift, let's not pretend that wasn't a robbery. Casual.

Actually no, he didn't. But that's another discussion.

He beat Manny Pacquaio. By your logic, he's not average, right?

Zahir Raheem beat Morales before Pacquaio did. By your logic, he's not average, right?

[IronDanHamza]

Iran Barkley was not a flashy fighter but he paid his dues on a bumpy road that ultimately saw him win 3 major World titles in 3 different weight classes. I do not know of any average fighters that have pulled off such an above average result.

Duke McKenzie has 3 major world titles in 3 different weight classes.

Adrien Broner has 4 major world titles in 4 weight classes.

Who did they actually beat? Who did Barkely actually beat?

So let's name the Top 10 ranked fighters he beat.

If he's not average.

[GhostofDempsey]

I said he was passed it because he was passed it. I never once said he was washed up. You're aware that passed it and washed up are not the same thing?

I don't care what age they were. Torres was in his prime at age 30 and Hearns wasn't. I'm not sure where you are lost? Benitez was finished before age 30 and Hopkins didn't hit his prime until 35. Fighters age differently. If we are going to pretend that Tommy Hearns was in his prime in 1988 then you're just objectively wrong about that.

Where did I say Torres was great? I said Torres was a prime HOFer, which, he was.

Benvenuti was a HOF'er, in his prime. That is a fact.

He lost to Giardello twice, ok...And????? I said he beat Giardello in his prime. Which, he did. You then responded by saying Giardello was washed up and "soon or immediately retired" because you have no clue what you're talking about.

I listed 4 wins over prime HOFers.

Now go ahead and name me the prime HOFers Barkley beat.

Then, name the Top 10 ranked fighters he beat.

Go ahead or shut the fuck up.

You're splitting hairs again...passed it and washed up is saying the same thing. Take this L like a man for once in your pathetic life. LOL

Who cares if Torres and Benvenuti are HOF'ers, so is Gatti! LOL

Tiger didn't beat any ATG fighters at their best. Not to disparage him, but HOF does not = ATG. Torres certainly didn't beat any great fighters, and he ducked Bob Foster. He was more famous for his friendship with Ali and the book he wrote about him. Certainly not for his resume or fighting prowess.

I never claimed Barkley was great, but you painted yourself into a corner claiming Hearns was "passed it" at age 30 while insisting Torres was prime at age 30. Take that L IronHamster, lol.

[IronDanHamza]

You're splitting hairs again...passed it and washed up is saying the same thing. Take this L like a man for once in your pathetic life. LOL

Who cares if Torres and Benvenuti are HOF'ers, so is Gatti! LOL

Tiger didn't beat any ATG fighters at their best. Not to disparage him, but HOF does not = ATG. Torres certainly didn't beat any great fighters, and he ducked Bob Foster. He was more famous for his friendship with Ali and the book he wrote about him. Certainly not for his resume or fighting prowess.

I never claimed Barkley was great, but you painted yourself into a corner claiming Hearns was "passed it" at age 30 while insisting Torres was prime at age 30. Take that L IronHamster, lol.

Er, no, they're really not the same thing at all.

Washed up is finished, shot, done, as an immediate example would be Roy Jones in the Hopkins rematch.

Passed it is exactly what is says, passed their best days. You can be passed it and still a top fighter, immediate example of that would be say Roberto Duran when he fought Davey Moore.

You understand there is quite the gigantic difference, right?

Like for example you just said Joey Giardello was "washed up" and "soon or immediately retired" in 1959 despite the fact he was in his prime and didn't retire for another 8 years.

So it seems you just don't have any idea what these things mean, do you?

You care if they're HOFers because clearly you can't name any that Barkley beat in their prime.

I never said Tiger beat ATG's in their prime. I said he has 4 wins over prime HOF'ers which he does.

That would be because Torres was in his prime, and Hearns was passed it. How can I make this easier for you to understand?

[GhostofDempsey]

Er, no, they're really not the same thing at all.

Washed up is finished, shot, done, as an immediate example would be Roy Jones in the Hopkins rematch.

Passed it is exactly what is says, passed their best days. You can be passed it and still a top fighter, immediate example of that would be say Roberto Duran when he fought Davey Moore.

You understand there is quite the gigantic difference, right?

Like for example you just said Joey Giardello was "washed up" and "soon or immediately retired" in 1959 despite the fact he was in his prime and didn't retire for another 8 years.

So it seems you just don't have any idea what these things mean, do you?

You care if they're HOFers because clearly you can't name any that Barkley beat in their prime.

I never said Tiger beat ATG's in their prime. I said he has 4 wins over prime HOF'ers which he does.

That would be because Torres was in his prime, and Hearns was passed it. How can I make this easier for you to understand?

More semantics. Both Torres and Hearns were 30 years old with the same amount of fights, yet you claim one was prime and the other passed it. Take that L Ironhamster!

Joey Giardello was never a great fighter, his best wins were against "passed it" HOF'ers like Fullmer and Robinson. Torres was all hype. A 30 year old Hearns would have tore the head off Torres, Tiger and Giardello on their best day! LOL.

[IronDanHamza]

More semantics. Both Torres and Hearns were 30 years old with the same amount of fights, yet you claim one was prime and the other passed it. Take that L Ironhamster!

Joey Giardello was never a great fighter, his best wins were against "passed it" HOF'ers like Fullmer and Robinson. Torres was all hype. A 30 year old Hearns would have tore the head off Torres, Tiger and Giardello on their best day! LOL.

It's actually not even remotely close to semantics. I think you could do with referring to an online dictionary ASAP.

Fighter A can be 30 and fighter B can be 30, one can be in their prime and the other can be shot. Which part aren't you understanding?

Fighter A could be shot before age 30 and fighter B could be in their prime in their mid 30's. I'm quite astounded that this even needs explaining to you.

Words are important; "Washed up" and "Passed it" are two totally different things.

Torres was in his prime. Tommy Hearns wasn't. Which part are you confused about?

Once again I never said any of them were great fighters. I said they were HOF'ers in their prime. Which, they were.

Now are you going to tell me the prime HOF fighters Barkley beat, or not?

You're also not addressing the fact you laughably claimed that Joey Giardello washed up in 1959! I.e You are CLUELESS.