Post Sugar Ray Robinson: Fighters Approaching His Greatness, Debatably Matching Him

[QueensburyRules]

- - Per "I also agree, that in the last 70 years no one has surpassed Robinson - for the simple reason, that he was probably a once in a lifetime, or once in a century, talent!"

Certainly we all agree there has been no shortage of great fighters post Robby, but who best can approach his shadow with credentials enough to surpass certain aspects of Robby?

I put forth Roberto Duran, Wlad Klitschko, and Manny Pacquiao.

And?

[ShoulderRoll]

Wladimir Klitschko?

You're taking the piss.

Duran qualifies as approaching his shadow. I would say Sugar Ray Leonard as well.

[QueensburyRules]

Wladimir Klitschko?

You're taking the piss.

Duran qualifies as approaching his shadow. I would say Sugar Ray Leonard as well.

- - Sal Sanchez has a better record and title record at age 23 than the entirety of Leonard's fragile career.

Wlad the only fighter in the near 70 years of Louis last fight vs Rocky to approach his all time record.

I rate Louis over Robby for that reason but he can't be included because of the differing eras with Ray being the younger fighter.

[JAB5239]

- - Sal Sanchez has a better record and title record at age 23 than the entirety of Leonard's fragile career.

Wlad the only fighter in the near 70 years of Louis last fight vs Rocky to approach his all time record.

I rate Louis over Robby for that reason but he can't be included because of the differing eras with Ray being the younger fighter.

If your gonna put Wlad in there you may as well put Holmes who was the better fighter between the two. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

Duran
Jones
Whitaker
Chavez
Oscar
Floyd
Pacquiao

There's the short list for you.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Sal Sanchez has a better record and title record at age 23 than the entirety of Leonard's fragile career.

Wlad the only fighter in the near 70 years of Louis last fight vs Rocky to approach his all time record.

I rate Louis over Robby for that reason but he can't be included because of the differing eras with Ray being the younger fighter.

LW fighters have an advantage over HWs. They can move 'up' --> opens the door to more possibility of 'greatness.'

Not a big deal but we should throw it in the mix (evaluation); it's easier for a LW to look 'awesome' with multiple belts, over a Long career, than it is for a HW.

[ShoulderRoll]

I've always maintained that heavyweights should be included in P4P lists, but only if they demonstrate a great skillset and mastery of the craft of boxing.

The same would apply to this conversation.

[The D3vil]

- Leonard has prime Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume.

If it's not for his premature retirement due to the eye, he could've made a good argument if he sticks aroudn long enough to fight guys like Donald Curry & Marlon Starling

- Duran started his career 72-1 and is probably the GOAT lightweight.

If he retires after beating Leonard, he's probably getting some GOAT talk

- If Roy Jones retires after beating John Ruiz, there's plenty of people walking around who call him the GOAT

- If Pernell Whittaker gets the nods against Chavez & De La Hoya, he's getting a lot of GOAT talk

- If Manny Pacquiao doesn't get robbed in the first fight against Marquez, Bradley, and Joe Horn, there's a lot of people who'd be calling him the GOAT after going on a run from 108-154.
- If Muhammad Ali doesn't get suspended for 3 years in his prime, I don't think Frazier ever beats him and he rules until the mid '70s, there's even more GOAT talk surrounding him.

[Bundana]

- Leonard has prime Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume.

If it's not for his premature retirement due to the eye, he could've made a good argument if he sticks aroudn long enough to fight guys like Donald Curry & Marlon Starling

- Duran started his career 72-1 and is probably the GOAT lightweight.

If he retires after beating Leonard, he's probably getting some GOAT talk

- If Roy Jones retires after beating John Ruiz, there's plenty of people walking around who call him the GOAT

- If Pernell Whittaker gets the nods against Chavez & De La Hoya, he's getting a lot of GOAT talk

- If Manny Pacquiao doesn't get robbed in the first fight against Marquez, Bradley, and Joe Horn, there's a lot of people who'd be calling him the GOAT after going on a run from 108-154.
- If Muhammad Ali doesn't get suspended for 3 years in his prime, I don't think Frazier ever beats him and he rules until the mid '70s, there's even more GOAT talk surrounding him.

Yeah, imagine if Jones retired after the Ruiz fight! Unfortunately he didn't - and what happened after that of course severely hurts his legacy. Which is sad, because at some point he looked almost out of this world!

[them_apples]

- - Per "I also agree, that in the last 70 years no one has surpassed Robinson - for the simple reason, that he was probably a once in a lifetime, or once in a century, talent!"

Certainly we all agree there has been no shortage of great fighters post Robby, but who best can approach his shadow with credentials enough to surpass certain aspects of Robby?

I put forth Roberto Duran, Wlad Klitschko, and Manny Pacquiao.

And?

I swear you are AI baiting with the Wlad insertion.

[QueensburyRules]

LW fighters have an advantage over HWs. They can move 'up' --> opens the door to more possibility of 'greatness.'

Not a big deal but we should throw it in the mix (evaluation); it's easier for a LW to look 'awesome' with multiple belts, over a Long career, than it is for a HW.

- - We had several hvys approach base Rocky level 49-0 record with none of his greatness, and all failed after 48-0.

Nobody since Louis has approached his all time hvy title record though technically Wlad has one more title "official" title fight, and one fight from matching his 26 title fight wins. Had he not fought the shamelessly steroided Fury, or had his new wife and then new mother not melted into postpartum depression causing great upheaval in his private life now worried about his he little helpless daughter is to be raised, he might well have made and exceeded the Louis mark until AJ would come along or retired.

But I get it understanding human psychology. Them dirty Russians suddenly show up to completely emasculate the joke of the American Heavyweight division. With predominant Americans now making all time rating lists and the like thinking in soprano as well as sing in soprano, well naturally they favor sopranos!

Stylistically on defense, Wlad was no worse than Ali, and much more successful overall in not being hit, and his offense vastly superior to Ali who too often gave up a lot of rounds because he knew judges would fudge their scores for him. Don't recall any significant robbery wins by Wlad compared to over a half dozen by Ali.

When Joe had controversial fights, he knocked em out in the rematch, and had he stay retired with the IRS gracing him for his unmatched contributions both financially and as an enlisted soldier where he provided mass morale boost for troops while flying in the same planes that could be shot down, Ali would properly be considered an entertaining joke in comparison.