Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?

[Dr. Z]

Its not just "weight" though truly... Weight is seldom a "good" thing. Lewis showed up in horrible shape. The big mystery was why Lewis accepted this fight on the terms offered... You know that lewis did not "bulk" because of Vitalie's size Queen B... Come on now lol.

I can answer that, Lewis signed a contact to fight Vitali via Lion Promotions and agreed to terms to giving Klitschko less than two weeks prepare to avoid being sued.

[Rosco3387]

He of course accepted the fight because he knew that the cards would be stacked against the challenger who only had prepared for an undercard fight, while Lewis had a full championship camp under his belt. Lewis had avoided Klitschko for a very long time and Lewis knew that this would be his best chance of winning.

That is plain illogical. If I figure to take your purse, which is equal to mine, and in so doing, use all mine... what is the gain? Lewis was comprimised himself... he had been preparing for a gimme.

[Rosco3387]

Logic?

Ok. If you take a random sample of 10 fighters and let them fight you end up with the best. Then you take another sample of fighters some 20 lbs heavier and increase the sample to 50 fighters and then find the best.

Who would be the best using logic? The best of sample 1 or the best of sample 2?

Something lost in translation Batts.

[Rosco3387]

L

No its mostly and advantage. If the bigger man knows how to clinch and moves as Vitali, and combines this with a good jab and power its game over. The smaller man MUST get up close and inside to have a chance.

I'm talking about a modernized heavyweight vs a heavyweight 5 decades or so back to the 1920's. There is vast difference in the height, weight and reach alone when comparing the garden variety contenders to each other . Peter was dominated by Klitschko. He didn't win a round and was taken out. You say he has limited skills, well he beat James Toney twice, please explain! Peter was a fair boxer with his jab, but obvisouly power was his best stuff. I must have missed it, who did Liston beat again above 200 pounds? And you say Vitali had weak competition. Um, okay.

Your taking this argument into the trope involving old versus new. I avoided that by simply asking one to use their eyes... A modern heavyweight like Wilder? Weighing in at 214 pounds? Toney made a late career bloom out of fighting the talentless heavyweights from that time.

We can agree to disagree regarding weight: Lol.

Not only did Vitalie have "weak" comp... But as a heavyweight his comp stands out as such! You cannot prop up the likes of Sam Peter! he lost to the two talented guys he fought: Byrd and Lewis. Now lets excuse his losses shall we?

[Rosco3387]

I can answer that, Lewis signed a contact to fight Vitali via Lion Promotions and agreed to terms to giving Klitschko less than two weeks prepare to avoid being sued.

How does that answer the question? At best both men were in bad shape... Vitalie did not look in bad shape and Lewis did. People seldom use their eyes with these things.

[BattlingNelson]

Something lost in translation Batts.

What is lost?

Still feel free to relate to my logic.

[BattlingNelson]

That is plain illogical. If I figure to take your purse, which is equal to mine, and in so doing, use all mine... what is the gain? Lewis was comprimised himself... he had been preparing for a gimme.

Nope. My points stand.

[Dr. Z]

How does that answer the question? At best both men were in bad shape... Vitalie did not look in bad shape and Lewis did. People seldom use their eyes with these things.

It explains why Vitali had so little time to prepare. If Vitali has a full camp for Lewis he would be in better shape. I've already explained the injury was the reason he lost to Byrd and he was up 4-2 on all three cards prior to the doctors call vs Lewis. Vitali has plenty of energy left when it was stopped. Lewis he could barely celebrate, and make no mistake about it, Lewis who said he rematch tried to make other matches after this fight. But when the WBC ordered a re-match and the boxing world was excited, Lewis retired.

Ponder what if Louis never re-matched Scheming, Ali retired as he wanted to in his corner by was talked out it by Dundee, Ali never re-matched Frazier. Well--Vitale as you spell it NEVER got the chance. This thread isn't about the losses the fighters are on his quality top ten ring magazine wins and other reasons why he's special.

[JAB5239]

It explains why Vitali had so little time to prepare. If Vitali has a full camp for Lewis he would be in better shape. I've already explained the injury was the reason he lost to Byrd and he was up 4-2 on all three cards prior to the doctors call vs Lewis. Vitali has plenty of energy left when it was stopped. Lewis he could barely celebrate, and make no mistake about it, Lewis who said he rematch tried to make other matches after this fight. But when the WBC ordered a re-match and the boxing world was excited, Lewis retired.

Ponder what if Louis never re-matched Scheming, Ali retired as he wanted to in his corner by was talked out it by Dundee, Ali never re-matched Frazier. Well--Vitale as you spell it NEVER got the chance. This thread isn't about the losses the fighters are on his quality top ten ring magazine wins and other reasons why he's special.

He was on the undercard.....had the same time to prepare that Lewis did.

Imagine how much worse Byrd would beat Vits if he had more time to prepare for him? Maybe that's why Vits never sought the rematch. Makes sense.

[Rosco3387]

Nope. My points stand.

logic belongs to no one... 2 plus 2 = 4. Lewis would have to be crazy to reason: "gee I will come in out of shape to help win against an out of shape opponent." It makes no sense whatsoever. More logical to conclude he was caught having to make a decision, impulsively perhaps, and overestimated his ability... making for a tough fight.