Beterbiev vs Marciano

[them_apples]

- - Beter gonna fight Yarde in London at the start of the new year. Yarde a big guy who can crack with a thug personality could upset the applecart.

Hope Scully and his team are on high alert as Brits wrote the book on skullduggery on how to get to opponents.

Well Yarde is a bum so Beter should beat him. doing juice and lifting weights doesn't make you a good fighter lol.

[Ivich]

He was chubby and he was 5ft10.

How is that hyperbole?

I didn't call him a midget blimp, did I?

In which fights can we see Rocky as chubby?
Which photos of him fighting reveal a spare tyre around his mid riff, surplus on his,pecs?
Marciano had quite a few technical flaws.
He wasnt quick of either hand or foot,his balance wasn't the best,he could fall over when he missed a haymaker.his defence was pretty rudimentary,but his conditioning hasnt been surpassed in my life time.
Marciano would train for months,and with his style he needed to.
His will to win ,and desire was the equal of anyone's.

Beterbiev has impressed me, he undoubtedly is a very big puncher at the weight, and imo more accurate than Rocky with his shots,but I've only seen him hitting light heavies,we have seen Rocky stop guys a bit bigger than Beterbiev's victims.

Let's assume their power is fairly equal,has Artur ever been hit by a guy with Walcott's power,Moore's?

I admit,to not knowing the answer, I saw him floored by an average puncher ,when he was caught square .

Beterbiev 's skin seems to hold up better than Rocky's.

I don't think there is much to choose in their defensive capabilities.

Rocky could be tagged and sharpshooters like Walcott and Moore did so,but Jersey Joe said catching him with a real big shot was deceptively difficult.
Walcott also said Marciano hit him harder than Louis with a single punch,its possible Joe was a bit more elusive back then, 5 years earlier against the Bomber than he was against Rocky,and age doesnt improve your resistance to punches, but it's perhaps. something to factor in?
Not withstanding Beterbiev's illustrious amateur career.I pick Marciano,and also the1st versions of Charles and Walcott Rocky beat to prevail over Beterbiev.

Beterbiev v Bivol should be a scrap worth watching.

NB If Beterbiev loses to our UK challenger Anthony Yarde this Artur v Rocky matchup will look rather ridiculous,imo .

It wasn't so long ago Kovalev was being touted as an ATG ,and we know how that worked out.

[QueensburyRules]

In which fights can we see Rocky as chubby?
Which photos of him fighting reveal a spare tyre around his mid riff, surplus on his,pecs?
Marciano had quite a few technical flaws.
He wasnt quick of either hand or foot,his balance wasn't the best,he could fall over when he missed a haymaker.his defence was pretty rudimentary,but his conditioning hasnt been surpassed in my life time.
Marciano would train for months,and with his style he needed to.
His will to win ,and desire was the equal of anyone.

Beterbiev has impressed me, he undoubtedly is a very big puncher at the weight, and imo more accurate than Rocky with his shots,but I've only seen him hitting light heavies,we have seen Rocky stop guys a bit bigger than Beterbiev's victims.

Let's assume their power is fairly equal,has Artur ever been hit by a guy with Walcott's power,Moore's?

I admit,to not knowing the answer, I saw him floored by an average puncher ,when he was caught square .

Beterbiev 's skin seems to hold up better than Rocky's.

I don't think there is much to choose in their defensive capabilities.

Rocky could be tagged and sharpshooters like Walcott and Moore did so,but Jersey Joe said catching him with a real big shot was deceptively difficult.
Walcott also said Marciano hit him harder than Louis with a single punch,its possible Joe was a bit more elusive back then, 5 years earlier against the Bomber than he was against Rocky,and age doesnt improve your resistance to punches, but it's perhaps. something to factor in?
Not withstanding Beterbiev's illustrious amateur career.I pick Marciano,and also the1st versions of Charles and Walcott Rocky beat to prevail over Beterbiev.

Beterbiev v Bivol should be a scrap worth watching.

NB If Beterbiev loses to our UK challenger Anthony Yarde this Artur v Rocky matchup will look rather ridiculous,imo .

It wasn't so long ago Kovalev was being touted as an ATG ,and we know how that worked out.

- - Getting robbed in Vegas twice by the thug promoted Wart is no loss in ATG status. Unfortunately he is on a downturn now in his elder years in part to those losses. Worse fighters been elected to the IBHOF than Kov.

[billeau2]

Finally someone with an unbiased opinion.

I mean for *** sake Marciano doesnt even have a size advantage here, hes actually smaller than beterbiev in many dimensions. People want to make him out to be a giant slayer, what giants did he face most of his top competition were former light heavyweights who were 175 fight night so nearly middleweights of today, then a shot joe lewis one of the few actual full size heavyweights with a pedigree he fought and the rest of his competition was atrocious.

"over romanticized" hits the nail on the head, people cant admit a decent but not proven ATG level lightweight of today would knock out the old school "heavyweight" of the past.

I don't have a way to judge this fight except to say that marciano's weight was a choice he made and not a predetermined limit of his physical abilities. He walked around at 210 or so when he ate and did not strive to be light light light for his matches. He himself said " I needed to stay in a perpetual crouch" and one assumes, in order to do that, lighter is better.

I think you are one of the more intelligent posters on the site, always enjoy your insights frankly. I just feel here that you misjudge the size issue as it relates to Rocky. Our actual size is a complex metric involving bone density, muscle to fat, reach, and basic size... There are reasons a guy at 180 could be considered a heavyweight...

[billeau2]

In which fights can we see Rocky as chubby?
Which photos of him fighting reveal a spare tyre around his mid riff, surplus on his,pecs?
Marciano had quite a few technical flaws.
He wasnt quick of either hand or foot,his balance wasn't the best,he could fall over when he missed a haymaker.his defence was pretty rudimentary,but his conditioning hasnt been surpassed in my life time.
Marciano would train for months,and with his style he needed to.
His will to win ,and desire was the equal of anyone's.

Beterbiev has impressed me, he undoubtedly is a very big puncher at the weight, and imo more accurate than Rocky with his shots,but I've only seen him hitting light heavies,we have seen Rocky stop guys a bit bigger than Beterbiev's victims.

Let's assume their power is fairly equal,has Artur ever been hit by a guy with Walcott's power,Moore's?

I admit,to not knowing the answer, I saw him floored by an average puncher ,when he was caught square .

Beterbiev 's skin seems to hold up better than Rocky's.

I don't think there is much to choose in their defensive capabilities.

Rocky could be tagged and sharpshooters like Walcott and Moore did so,but Jersey Joe said catching him with a real big shot was deceptively difficult.
Walcott also said Marciano hit him harder than Louis with a single punch,its possible Joe was a bit more elusive back then, 5 years earlier against the Bomber than he was against Rocky,and age doesnt improve your resistance to punches, but it's perhaps. something to factor in?
Not withstanding Beterbiev's illustrious amateur career.I pick Marciano,and also the1st versions of Charles and Walcott Rocky beat to prevail over Beterbiev.

Beterbiev v Bivol should be a scrap worth watching.

NB If Beterbiev loses to our UK challenger Anthony Yarde this Artur v Rocky matchup will look rather ridiculous,imo .

It wasn't so long ago Kovalev was being touted as an ATG ,and we know how that worked out.

Some great points here:

1. Beterbiev and the Kovalev situation: As a Ward fan this particularly hurt me lol. I was kind of hoping Kovalev would have done more for the sake of Ward's legacy, but as we know, he didn't. Much like Beterbiev he had the patina of invincibility.

2. Is there some fundamental qualities that make one a heavyweight? Rhetorical question, but a lot of your discussion regarding comparing these two sheds some light upon this question. If we look at history many light heavies who could hit have tried "heavyweight" on and not been successful enough to get anything but a few brass rings... and not the Gold ring (Carousel Central park NYC lol). Its a legitimate question whether Beterbiev could dent heavyweight noggin. For exhibition #1 We have Foster against Frazier...

3. To add to the above: Most of the succesful light heavies/cruisers who came up where not big punchers... Michael Moorer, even Archie Moorer (was not a big puncher at heavyweight), Spinks, Tunney...

[them_apples]

Some great points here:

1. Beterbiev and the Kovalev situation: As a Ward fan this particularly hurt me lol. I was kind of hoping Kovalev would have done more for the sake of Ward's legacy, but as we know, he didn't. Much like Beterbiev he had the patina of invincibility.

2. Is there some fundamental qualities that make one a heavyweight? Rhetorical question, but a lot of your discussion regarding comparing these two sheds some light upon this question. If we look at history many light heavies who could hit have tried "heavyweight" on and not been successful enough to get anything but a few brass rings... and not the Gold ring (Carousel Central park NYC lol). Its a legitimate question whether Beterbiev could dent heavyweight noggin. For exhibition #1 We have Foster against Frazier...

3. To add to the above: Most of the succesful light heavies/cruisers who came up where not big punchers... Michael Moorer, even Archie Moorer (was not a big puncher at heavyweight), Spinks, Tunney...

I’m responding to your post but this is also directed at ivich:

I think at 5 ft 10 with a 67 reach, if Marciano could have made 175 he would have. But that just wasn’t happening. Running 10-12 miles up and down hills (likely at the camps peak) when you are a short limbed heavy boned man is an immense amount of calorie burning. And these running claims are documented by a few sources (so it wasn’t just a fairytale). For comparison Tyson would run 3-5 miles every day, which is a lot for a stocky short limbed man.

in Marcianos era there was no confusion between how big a mans muscles are and how strong he is. There was no steroids in mass effect in boxing confusing casuals with water retentive builds. Marciano is strong no matter what. He’s 300 lbs as soon as he decides not to box. He’s the guy who bench presses 500-600+ lbs if he decided to be a powerlifter. He’s heavy handed and he’ll hurt anyone he hits.

I will say this though imo, clumsey yes, but slow? Not so much. Thats the trickery of his style. Hell throw a lot of baiting clumsey shots to really get his opponent to commit and open up. But in this he’ll look to land a high velocity sledgehammer in that moment of error.

[billeau2]

Iâm responding to your post but this is also directed at ivich:

I think at 5 ft 10 with a 67 reach, if Marciano could have made 175 he would have. But that just wasnât happening. Running 10-12 miles up and down hills (likely at the camps peak) when you are a short limbed heavy boned man is an immense amount of calorie burning. And these running claims are documented by a few sources (so it wasnât just a fairytale). For comparison Tyson would run 3-5 miles every day, which is a lot for a stocky short limbed man.

in Marcianos era there was no confusion between how big a mans muscles are and how strong he is. There was no steroids in mass effect in boxing confusing casuals with water retentive builds. Marciano is strong no matter what. Heâs 300 lbs as soon as he decides not to box. Heâs the guy who bench presses 500-600+ lbs if he decided to be a powerlifter. Heâs heavy handed and heâll hurt anyone he hits.

I will say this though imo, clumsey yes, but slow? Not so much. Thats the trickery of his style. Hell throw a lot of baiting clumsey shots to really get his opponent to commit and open up. But in this heâll look to land a high velocity sledgehammer in that moment of error.

Yeah... If you look EVEN at foundational metrics, like Allopathic medical data... Weight and size is poorly understood. Perfect example, we determine obesity with an index that does not discriminate between fat and muscle. We sort of have lost the understanding involving basic size elements like bone density and even muscle:fat ratio...

Marciano developed a way. It had elements of Goldstein and elements of his own experience. He seemed to defy the odds.

[them_apples]

- - We don't know how Rocky would fare today if he had to make 175 nor how Beter would fare in Rocky's era if he didn't have to make weight.

However, we have a modern size comparison with former LH contender and current Beter trainer John Scully.


EDfqFdnX4AA37zd-1024x1024.jpg






Extrapolating Beter not needing to make weight today with Rocky still unlimited, based on Rocky's comp in his title years, Beter gets smoked.

It ain't beyond the pale though to figure Beter not needing to make weight who already weighs 190 the night of the fight while making weight, 200 vs Rocky 190 now we might get a great fight. Beter chin not proven at full heavy, but 18-0, 18 KO shows he can crack at a higher level than Rocky with 18 fights who was still quite clumsy at that stage, but the matchup ain't 18 vs 18, it's 18 vs 49-0, 43 KOs.

All I know is we'd have a better fight than 80% of the usual suspects here are capable of understanding, so Let's Get Ready to Rumble!!!

bring bob foster in from the old age home, he towers over Beter and looks like a natural HW going by his head and fist size. I wouldn't use that photo for any type of judgement. Scully could be thick in the legs, atrophied from old age, or just plain a small LHW even for his time.

When you are old you lose mass and height. But also take in how big they were for their day. Hagler for example looks small, but he WAS a small middleweight. Duran looks the same size as him, and is bigger than many welters today.

but alas heres a video of them hitting the pads, I'm sure scully was a similar build to beter in his younger days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acNY1F7PRmo


Now: seeing you watched the video of Beter hitting the pads with scully, you can see they are very close in size.

Here is Scully vs Nunn, a huge size difference. And Nunn could make 160 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Uzdb4nHTo

[QueensburyRules]

bring bob foster in from the old age home, he towers over Beter and looks like a natural HW going by his head and fist size. I wouldn't use that photo for any type of judgement. Scully could be thick in the legs, atrophied from old age, or just plain a small LHW even for his time.

When you are old you lose mass and height. But also take in how big they were for their day. Hagler for example looks small, but he WAS a small middleweight. Duran looks the same size as him, and is bigger than many welters today.

but alas heres a video of them hitting the pads, I'm sure scully was a similar build to beter in his younger days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acNY1F7PRmo


Now: seeing you watched the video of Beter hitting the pads with scully, you can see they are very close in size.

Here is Scully vs Nunn, a huge size difference. And Nunn could make 160 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Uzdb4nHTo

- - U ever been medically diagnosed as looney tunes? Seriously!

Beter broad and thick both in skull and body dwarfs Scully who has post retirement been very active in sparring and training and could prob beat a host of lower ranked LHs with no extra effort today.

Beter skull also bigger than the 250+ trainer wearing the body bag. I don't know Beter official ring weights, but I'd guess he fights and spars at 190+ before the slow cut of nutrition and finally the gallon of water to make 175. He was fighting Usyk at heavy in the amas, ie 200lbs and if he ever does move up, that is gonna be where he goes for a short fare the well before.
retirement.

*** John properly busy in prep not the least being prepped in security precautions to keep Beter and the crew safe from Russian hating Westerners with plenty of blankets for missile cover. Maybe he can spend two minutes detailing what Beter typical fight weights are.

[Bundana]

Well Yarde is a bum so Beter should beat him. doing juice and lifting weights doesn't make you a good fighter lol.

So Yarde is a bum, is he? A man who has picked one of the hardest and most dangerous jobs as his livelihood... he deserves to be called a bum?