1905 JJ Jeffries vs JJohnson?

[travestyny]

Your dishonest as leaving out information such as Jack Johnson signed a contract to meet with Sam Langford in 1909 but pulled out of the match.

Why do you keep lying about him? If you can't debate him honestly like a man, then why are you here? You blatantly lie about him because YOU are dishonest. Explain this in his post if what you say above is true.

We know that not yet champion Johnson signed to fight Langford in 1908 NOT1909 ,his purse was to be £3000 with him to pay his own expenses ,their fight was to be held in London.
One he won the title Johnson declared that as champion his price for a title defence was the same as Burns had demanded to face him$30,000.The NSC never offered Johnson more than $6000.

That's not to diminish the other lies you just told in that post, but let's start there. I'd love to know why you keep lying about what he has said. Do you feel you can't debate him without telling blatant lies about him? That's pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[Dr. Z]

Why do you keep lying about him? If you can't debate him honestly like a man, then why are you here? You blatantly lie about him because YOU are dishonest. Explain this in his post if what you say above is true.




That's not to diminish the other lies you just told in that post, but let's start there. I'd love to know why you keep lying about what he has said. Do you feel you can't debate him without telling blatant lies about him? That's pretty pathetic if you ask me.

I did say anything wrong. The Langford vs Johnson fight was signed to meet with no given date as to when it would happen. Johnson would fight Burns in December 1908. He could have honored the contact in 1909, but pulled out of the signed contact! Was the contact signed before the Burns fight, yes I think so, But that isn't my point. The promoter bitched and said thing about Johnson's character for backing out. He did not have too, Johnson vs. a prime Sam Langford in 1909 would have been a heck of a fight. Sam had put in about 25-30 pounds from their initial meeting in 1906 where he was estimated to be but 20 years and 156 pounds. A fully grown and experienced with heavyweights was much more formidable. Now what did I say about Johnson that was not true? Examples??? Lie about him? Examples?? If you want to defend a known lair, an obvious word twister and omission of facts, and false statements like Johnson was here below 185 pounds, so be it. I am correcting him, not you. Here was my reply:

You don't act like at like an abrasive SOB? Oh sure you don't act like a victim. Your dishonest as leaving out information such as Jack Johnson signed a contract to meet with Sam Langford in 1909 but pulled out of the match. IMO Johnson as champion could have fought anywhere such as France, England or Australia but did not meet with any Langford, Jeannette Mcvey, Gun Boat Smith ( who knocked him silly in a exhibition match to the point where he was down and dazed ) Mccarty, Wills or heavyweight beat anyone in their near their prime years for 1908-1915 viewed highly today except Willard who of course knocked him out! Johnson had may offers from known promoters. One can fill several threads on the offers. Yet not ONE was accepted and fought by Johnson.

Well he had two draws one with O'Brien who some think he lost, and one with journeyman Jim Battling Johnson which he should have lost but received a draw. If the match was 10 rounds. If it was scheduled 15 or longer he would like have been Knocked Out!

Don't act like what I'm writing is not the truth. It is the truth.

Really Johnson never fight below 185 lbs? You are so wrong it's funny. Yes he did! He was the Texas middleweight champion. Did middles fight at 185 or above?

No one here should take what you say at face value.

And you say he hit harder than Rid**** Bowe! I think I'll stop now. No need to miss your parties, free mason meetings, and such.

[travestyny]

I did say anything wrong. The Langford vs Johnson fight was signed to meet with no given date as to when it would happen. Johnson would fight Burns in December 1908. He could have honored the contact in 1909, but pulled out of the signed contact! Was the contact signed before the Burns fight, yes I think so, But that isn't my point. The promoter bitched and said thing about Johnson's character for backing out. He did not have too, Johnson vs. a prime Sam Langford in 1909 would have been a heck of a fight. Sam had put in about 25-30 pounds from their initial meeting in 1906 where he was estimated to be but 20 years and 156 pounds. A fully grown and experienced with heavyweights was much more formidable. Now what did I say about Johnson that was not true? Examples??? Lie about him? Examples?? If you want to defend a known lair, an obvious word twister and omission of facts, and false statements like Johnson was here below 185 pounds, so be it. I am correcting him, not you. Here was my reply:

You don't act like at like an abrasive SOB? Oh sure you don't act like a victim. Your dishonest as leaving out information such as Jack Johnson signed a contract to meet with Sam Langford in 1909 but pulled out of the match. IMO Johnson as champion could have fought anywhere such as France, England or Australia but did not meet with any Langford, Jeannette Mcvey, Gun Boat Smith ( who knocked him silly in a exhibition match to the point where he was down and dazed ) Mccarty, Wills or heavyweight beat anyone in their near their prime years for 1908-1915 viewed highly today except Willard who of course knocked him out! Johnson had may offers from known promoters. One can fill several threads on the offers. Yet not ONE was accepted and fought by Johnson.

Well he had two draws one with O'Brien who some think he lost, and one with journeyman Jim Battling Johnson which he should have lost but received a draw. If the match was 10 rounds. If it was scheduled 15 or longer he would like have been Knocked Out!

Don't act like what I'm writing is not the truth. It is the truth.

Really Johnson never fight below 185 lbs? You are so wrong it's funny. Yes he did! He was the Texas middleweight champion. Did middles fight at 185 or above?

No one here should take what you say at face value.

And you say he hit harder than Rid**** Bowe! I think I'll stop now. No need to miss your parties, free mason meetings, and such.

There you go off topic again. I asked a simple question.


Why are you accusing him of not mentioning the contract when he clearly has mentioned it? He clearly has addressed this already, has he not?

[Willie Pep 229]

Bruh. You are doing the same passive aggressive shlt to Ivich that you do with me.

I've never seen you criticize GhostofDempsey when he continues to say the same shlt over and over that has been proven wrong clearly. You become rabid when someone doesn't agree with you about Dempsey, even when it's soundly backed up. You have been very disrespectful toward Harry Wills simply because he was after his title shot, and you have gone so far as to make threads claiming that it was in fact he who ducked Dempsey. Only to backtrack and say it was a joke, only to backtrack to say it was in fact the truth when you found more information...which was wrong, only to backtrack and say it was a joke, rinse and repeat.

Ivich and I have not always agreed, but it never escalated to any beef here. He backs up what he says with sound evidence, and that's enough for me. Jab and I don't always agree, but he backs up what he presents as fact with sound evidence and gives good reasons for his opinions.

But some of you post only with an agenda and ignore whatever or whomever doesn't fit your agenda. You don't like to admit when you are wrong. You make accusations against posters here and when YOU are proven wrong, you can't even bring yourself to apologize. That's happened numerous times.

So I'm confused as to why you seem to be playing victim here when you are just as big a part of the posters that make this section disagreeable, just not to the extent of GhostofLiars and Queenie. Only thing is needed is for someone to criticize Dempsey and you fit right in with that group of butthurt lying buffoons.

If you claim Ivich is this and that, I would LOVE to hear what you think of a poster like GhostofATurd. But then again he's your brother in the Dempsey cult, so he gets a pass, right?

Why did you involve yourself?

You think you prove people wrong, because you are obsessed with the whole 'right and wrong' thing I complain about.

You want this to be a competition - I want it to be an opportunity to discuss and learn.

That is the difference as to why you and not them. They never insist they are right, they never announce they won, you do it all the time.

[GhostofDempsey]

I've never been a victim.
The times I have proven you wrong about:
Johnson, his height and weight
McVey, his weight
Johnson beginning his career as a middleweight,what was it you said ?" I dont care what you produce I won't accept it?" "Johnson never fought below 185lbs."
Langford my supposed dislike of him
Johnson signing to fight Jeannette twice
Johnson signing to fight Langford
Johnson signing to fight McVey.
Kid Cotton being nothing more than a sparring partner,you said Johnson avoided him!
Thats just a few off the top of my head.

I'm not angry ,but I hate a liar.
You're not only that, a barefaced liar, but one who hasn't the balls to admit he is wrong.
You are a certified 24 carat ****!

btw. I'll give you abrasive.lol

I used your own sources against you. You haven’t proven me or anyone else wrong. That is in your delusional mind. You’re a lame old drunkard and a cultist. Grown men don’t walk around with decoder rings and silly robes to be part of some secret society of thieves, liars and miscreants. The only people who ride with you on here are as bad or worse than you and have been exposed for the same lies and psychotic behaviors.

[Dr. Z]

There you go off topic again. I asked a simple question.


Why are you accusing him of not mentioning the contract when he clearly has mentioned it? He clearly has addressed this already, has he not?

And the exact date of the contact was signed was? You didn't not answer me. Ivich clearly leaves information out to make his points. And stuff like Johnson hit harder than Bowe and Johnson was never below 185 pounds, we'll....

I am factually saying he did not honor a signed contract and his replies leave out mention of promoters and numerous articles the offering Johnson fights, however never fought any them as champion!

Your just fan of Johnson's. I can see why you would buddy up with him. That make sense to me as his agenda mixes with your rooting interests. We'll some of it at least. I don't think your a free mason and give money to groups that we on the USA terror list until 2008.

[travestyny]

And the exact date of the contact was signed was? You didn't not answer me. Ivich clearly leaves information out to make his points. And stuff like Johnson hit harder than Bowe and Johnson was never below 185 pounds, we'll....

Your just fan of Johnson's. I can see why you would buddy up with him. That make sense to me as his agenda mixes with you rooting interests.

If you look at Ivich's post, he says it was signed in 1908.

You really just like to lie and duck questions, don't you.

Did he address the contract, or are you telling a lie about him? It's simple. You don't seem to want to answer. I guess we know who is dishonest here.

[travestyny]

Why did you involve yourself?

You think you prove people wrong, because you are obsessed with the whole 'right and wrong' thing I complain about.

You want this to be a competition - I want it to be an opportunity to discuss and learn.

That is the difference as to why you and not them. They never insist they are right, they never announce they won, you do it all the time.

You can claim anything you want about me. That's fine.

How about yourself and your buddies here? I imagine you think you all are just fantastic members of the history section when you spread your lies to fit an agenda, right?

I, like Ivich, post various sources to back up what I say. You and your buddies post on emotion. Isn't that right? I mean after all, we are still waiting for your proof that Wills ducked Dempsey. Or were you just joking? Did you finally make up your mind or what?



And when have I ever declared winning anything, or is this more lies? I can't win anything when there is no competition. When I offered a formal debate, your buddies backed down didn't they?

[Willie Pep 229]

You can claim anything you want about me. That's fine.

How about yourself and your buddies here? I imagine you think you all are just fantastic members of the history section when you spread your lies to fit an agenda, right?

I, like Ivich, post various sources to back up what I say. You and your buddies post on emotion. Isn't that right? I mean after all, we are still waiting for your proof that Wills ducked Dempsey. Or were you just joking? Did you finally make up your mind or what?



And when have I ever declared winning anything, or is this more lies? I can't win anything when there is no competition. When I offered a formal debate, your buddies backed down didn't they?

See! All about winning. You get the last word. Say what you will, insult me, blame me, get it out of your system. I won't reply again.

[travestyny]

See! All about winning. You get the last word. Say what you will, insult me, blame me, get it out of your system. I won't reply again.

Don't know what part of that was all about winning. Seems to me that for you, it's all about lying.