Did Sam Langford knock Johnson down?

[Dr. Z]

Sam who lost the fight says he knocked Johnson down when he was approximately 20 years old and 156 pounds! He talks about the numerous offers that Johnson declined to fight him, Sam beating common opponents faster, and Johnson pulling out of a signed offer to fight Langford in 1909! Now that Langford is 30 pounds heavier Johnsons want no part of him! This is a 1911 article. Langford as you know was avoided. So was Gunboat Smith who TKO Johnson in an exhibition match in 1909 ( did you read that report? ), Jeannette, Mcvey, and he didn't make a fight with McCarty either. Nor Harry Wills. 5 men form 1909-1915. None them got a chance for a title shot. Some of them had enough time.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SPDN1911...ngford-------1

[Ivich]

Sam who lost the fight says he knocked Johnson down when he was approximately 20 years old and 156 pounds! He talks about the numerous offers that Johnson declined to fight him, Sam beating common opponents faster, and Johnson pulling out of a signed offer to fight Langford in 1909! Now that Langford is 30 pounds heavier Johnsons want no part of him! This is a 1911 article. Langford as you know was avoided. So was Gunboat Smith who TKO Johnson in an exhibition match in 1909 ( did you read that report? ), Jeannette, Mcvey, and he didn't make a fight with McCarty either. Nor Harry Wills. 5 men form 1909-1915. None them got a chance for a title shot. Some of them had enough time.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SPDN1911...ngford-------1

Ground Hog Day Again
We know Langford did not floor Johnson
We know Sam Woodman, Langford's manager confessed to Nat Fleischer that Sam did not floor Johnson ,that they only said he did to drum up interest for a return go.
We know this because Woodman stated it in a Ring interview with Fleischer .
We know it because Fleischer's Father in Law was present at the fight and he stated Johnson floored Langford twice for long nine counts and was never in any trouble himself.
We know Langford was lying because we have ringside accounts of the fight,that totally contradict his account of the fight.
We know Johnson wrote an open letter to the Ring rebutting Langford's tale and asking anyone who doubted his own account to contact Tad Dorgan the writer who was ringside for the fight.

We can't be sure about Langford's age ,even Clay Moyle told me he just made his best guess.


We know Langford and Johnson did not weigh in for their fight,that the weights were just "guesstimates".
There were several offers for Johnson to fight Langford that he declined to take.
NONE WERE FOR $30,000 which was Johnsons asking price for a defence .

We know Langford added weight, anything over 180lbs was surplus as he was only 5 ft 7 in and Moyle says his best weight was 175/180lbs. Sam added weight and so did Johnson about 23lbs of muscle taking him up to 208lbs his peak
We know Johnson accepted a two fight deal to defend against both Langford and McVey in Australia

We know the fight was pulled by H McIntosh the promoter when public opinion whipped up by the church turned against Johnson.
We know McIntosh made a public statement to that effect in the national papers.

We know that not yet champion Johnson signed to fight Langford in 1908 NOT1909 ,his purse was to be £6000 $4000 for the winner £2000 for the loser, with both men to pay their own expenses ,their fight was to be held in London.
One he won the title Johnson declared that as champion his price for a title defence was the same as Burns had demanded to face him$30,000.The NSC never offered Johnson more than a shared purse of $6000.

Johnson was knocked down in a sparring session by Smith.I don't know how many times you have posted this on forums ,or what significance you think is has?
There was no TKO ,you don't have them in sparring sessions.
Johnson was not ko'd or anything like it .in fact he sparred with three other fighters later that afternoon!

Johnson while in exile ,telegraphed Tommy Burns offering to defend his title against McCarty for Burns in Calgary.Burns was maneuvering his meal ticket Arthur Pelkey towards a bout with McCarty and wanted no part of Johnson ,his reply was that putting on a match involving Johnson would be detrimental to the sport. Its all in Pollack's books!

Johnson twice signed to defend against Jeannette when his price was met .
The NYAC vetoed the fights and threatened any promoter who put them on with the withdrawal of their licence.
The promoters.the McMahon Brothers made a public statement to this effect and so did the NYAC Chairman,
Jeannette Johnson's proposed challenger also made a statement absolving Johnson of any blame for the fights falling through.
Langford lost fights to McVey.Jeannette,Smith,Flynn.Johnson easily handled McVey floored Jeannette multiple times in their series and played with Flynn.
Smith blew his chances for a title fight by losing to Carpentier and being ko'd by Langford

I've no doubt you will repeat all your BS in the future,God knows you've been doing it for years now!
It seems to be your sole reason for going on boxing forums!

You're a sad clown of a man.

[Dr. Z]

You sad old man, the article clearly states with description and the round the knockdown happened! Johnson backed out of a signed contact period. Don't bother denying it. Do I need to repost the Gunboat Smith vs Jack Johnson exhibition match again? Johnson's manager saved him and halted the match after being floored! TKO. In good time I will reposted it here. How many excuses are there for Johnson? 102? The promoters called him a liar in the press. I can see why you defend him! Care to post what Langford, Jeanette, and others did about the fights not happening.

Johnson fought Battling Jim Johnson for well under $30,000.00! Well under 6,000 to. He would have made more with Langford and Jeanette.

[Willie Pep 229]

All boxers remember 'bad' late in life - Jack Johnson always lied. Put the two together and this conversation can't go anywhere except for everyone, yet again posting their (biased) opinion.

New argument: Both things happened but one of them kept slipping in an out of a parallel universe. The real question is, which one became unstuck in 'reality' ?

P.S. Ever notice in "Little Girl Gone" (TZ) that the protagonist's (dad) best friend just happens to be a physicist? Lucky coincidence. You hear your child's voice coming out of a wall you call the fire department and take down the damn wall.

[Ivich]

You sad old man, the article clearly states with description and the round the knockdown happened! Johnson backed out of a signed contact period. Don't bother denying it. Do I need to repost the Gunboat Smith vs Jack Johnson exhibition match again? Johnson's manager saved him and halted the match after being floored! TKO. In good time I will reposted it here. How many excuses are there for Johnson? 102? The promoters called him a liar in the press. I can see why you defend him! Care to post what Langford, Jeanette, and others did about the fights not happening.

Johnson fought Battling Jim Johnson for well under $30,000.00! Well under 6,000 to. He would have made more with Langford and Jeanette.

Langford did not knock Johnson down.

I've never denied Johnson reneged on a contract to fight Langford I mentioned it in my previous post you idiot!
The article you posted confirms that Johnson accepted the $30,000 to defend against Langford in Australia do you actually realize that?

Langford claims he was only140lbs when he fought Johnson on the 26th of April1906.
Yet he weighed 150lbs for his fight with Dave Holly on the13th of Feb1905 .

And weighed 155lbs for his fight with Young Peter Jackson on the 25th of May 1905

So he lost 15lbs in11 months to fight Johnson?

Do you believe this? Because if you don't, you accept that Langford was lying , and therefore why would you believe he knocked Johnson down?

Sam was trying to hype the fight,to promote interest in it .If he had said what he did later, that
."Johnson handed me the only real lickin I ever took ,I take my hat off to him " How would that have helped the proposed fight?
News Flash.
Nobody cares about your hate agenda,so just jog on.

[Dr. Z]

Langford did not knock Johnson down.

I've never denied Johnson reneged on a contract to fight Langford I mentioned it in my previous post you idiot!

News Flash.
Nobody gives a flying **** about your hate agenda so jog on.

You like the rug. At least you admit on Johnson reneging! I pretty much forced you to say that, but you still deny all the offers out there, and it was never Johnson's fault, according to you a known liar! Here are a few.


1 ) In 1914 the NSC offered Johnson £6000, which was approximately $30,000, to face Langford. Johnson called the offer "ridiculous" and rejected it. (Townsville Daily Bulletin, 17th Feb 1914)

2 ) French promoter Theodore Vienne says he offered Johnson $25,000 and then $30,000 to meet Langford in Paris. Johnson turned him down. Johnson's continual refusal to meet the best challengers led to the French Boxing Federation stripping him of the title (Winnipeg Tribune, 27th Dec 1913)

3 ) McIntosh made a series of offers to Johnson: $60,000 to fight Langford, McVey and Jeannette in Australia (NYT 9 Dec 1912); $30,000 for an unnamed opponent that the author presumes to be Langford (NYT 26th June 1912); $40,000 for Langford and McVey with $5000 expenses and a $10,000 forfeit (NYT 9th August 1912). Then there was a reported $100,000 to fight Langford and Jeannette in Australia and Flynn in Paris (NYT Oct 12 1912)

[GhostofDempsey]

Johnson flip flopped his story on this. One of his confessions from his own French autobiography was that Sam knocked him down in the fight. He also claimed to be 190 to Sam's 138 for that fight. Two years after the fight he admitted to Australian trainer that he hit the canvas but it was a slip. Nat Fleischer of Ring Magazine wrote that his father in law A.D. Philips attended the bout and told him Johnson went down in the 5th as a result of a slip when he threw a wild punch but that Langford also caught him at the same time with a counter to the jaw. Not sure if his father in law would have any reason or motivation to lie about that.

[Willie Pep 229]

Johnson flip flopped his story on this. One of his confessions from his own French autobiography was that Sam knocked him down in the fight. He also claimed to be 190 to Sam's 138 for that fight. Two years after the fight he admitted to Australian trainer that he hit the canvas but it was a slip. Nat Fleischer of Ring Magazine wrote that his father in law A.D. Philips attended the bout and told him Johnson went down in the 5th as a result of a slip when he threw a wild punch but that Langford also caught him at the same time with a counter to the jaw. Not sure if his father in law would have any reason or motivation to lie about that.

That would make everybody right then and now. - But if that's the 'truth then it was a KD.

[Dr. Z]

Johnson flip flopped his story on this. One of his confessions from his own French autobiography was that Sam knocked him down in the fight. He also claimed to be 190 to Sam's 138 for that fight. Two years after the fight he admitted to Australian trainer that he hit the canvas but it was a slip. Nat Fleischer of Ring Magazine wrote that his father in law A.D. Philips attended the bout and told him Johnson went down in the 5th as a result of a slip when he threw a wild punch but that Langford also caught him at the same time with a counter to the jaw. Not sure if his father in law would have any reason or motivation to lie about that.

His own autobiography says this. Time to put Tony, Mcvey, Tonto62 and, Ivich on suicide watch. Ouch!

[Ivich]

You like the rug. At least you admit on Johnson reneging! I pretty much forced you to say that, but you still deny all the offers out there, and it was never Johnson's fault, according to you a known liar! Here are a few.


1 ) In 1914 the NSC offered Johnson £6000, which was approximately $30,000, to face Langford. Johnson called the offer "ridiculous" and rejected it. (Townsville Daily Bulletin, 17th Feb 1914)

2 ) French promoter Theodore Vienne says he offered Johnson $25,000 and then $30,000 to meet Langford in Paris. Johnson turned him down. Johnson's continual refusal to meet the best challengers led to the French Boxing Federation stripping him of the title (Winnipeg Tribune, 27th Dec 1913)

3 ) McIntosh made a series of offers to Johnson: $60,000 to fight Langford, McVey and Jeannette in Australia (NYT 9 Dec 1912); $30,000 for an unnamed opponent that the author presumes to be Langford (NYT 26th June 1912); $40,000 for Langford and McVey with $5000 expenses and a $10,000 forfeit (NYT 9th August 1912). Then there was a reported $100,000 to fight Langford and Jeannette in Australia and Flynn in Paris (NYT Oct 12 1912)

I like the rug? Do I?
You forced me to admit nothing I've repeated the contract story on here at least three times previously.
The NSC never offered Johnson$30,000 to fight anyone.
Vienne offered Johnson $ 20,000 to fight Jeannette not Langford,in fight to the finish he later upped it to $25,000 with Johnson to pay his own expenses.Johnson stood out for $30,000,He had accepted $30,000 to fight Jeannette over10rds in NY twice,why would he take less to travel to Paris to fight Jeannette>
The French Federation stripped Johnson of their version of the title and reinstated him a month later.Why are you posting this its common knowledge!

In1910 McIntosh offered Johnson only $15,000 plus expenses to fight Langford,with Johnson to put up the same amount as a guarantee.This wa s confirmed by Joe Woodman Langford s manager in the El Paso Herald Nov 4th 1910
NO McIntosh never offered Johnson a fight with Jeannette in Australia,Jeannette had never fought there his name meant nothing to Aussies.McIntosh offered Johnson a two fight deal, defences against Langford and McVey both of whom were known there.
Johnson accepted the deal .It was called off when Johnson jumped bail and became a fugitive.McIntosh went into print explaining that he was bowing to public opinion.His statement is in Pollack's book along with many others.

Johnson beat Flynn on the 4th of July1912 Flynn did not win a round and in the opinion of the referee fouled out to save himself from being ko'd.
Johnson got$31,500 for that easy afternoon's work.
Now tell me why the French would want to see a replay of it 3 months later?
Well that' s dealt with your hate agenda for the umpteenth time.I look forward to correcting your lies in the near future.