Gunboat Smith, a raw novice in 1909 put Jack Johnson down. Jack's manage halts the action.

[Dr. Z]

More to come. Article head line says Johnson knocked out.


https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...unboat%20smith

[Willow The Wisp]

Down under, Europe; the press and the public they served to inform, influence and entertain were as bigoted and anti-Johnson as they were in the States. This was sparring, and you can read only so much into what occurs while doing that. Gunboat Smith, of course was later a candidate for next best heavyweight on the planet in the years directly leading up to the first World War, and had real power. Great newspaper find buddy, and thanks for sharing!!

[Ivich]

Down under, Europe; the press and the public they served to inform, influence and entertain were as bigoted and anti-Johnson as they were in the States. This was sparring, and you can read only so much into what occurs while doing that. Gunboat Smith, of course was later a candidate for next best heavyweight on the planet in the years directly leading up to the first World War, and had real power. Great newspaper find buddy, and thanks for sharing!!

New Flash a boxer was knocked down in sparring in1909! Hold the front page!
What is a MANGE is it some kind of skin disease Johnson was suffering from?

Nobody is as bigoted and anti Johnson as Dr Z!
Nowhere in Smiths statement does it say he knocked Johnson out ,on the contrary he expressly says he did not.
Nowhere in the article does it say Johnson was tko'd,which is what DRZ repeatedly states.
After sparring with Smith ,Johnson went 2 rounds with an LA lightweight named Arslinger and 2 rds with Johnny O Keefe a middleweight.
After O Keefe it was reported that Johnson went 2 rounds with Bob Armstrong, 2 rounds with Joe Lanum,and 2 rounds with Dave MIlls.

.So IF Smith dropped Johnson, Johnson then went a further 10 rounds with 5 different sparring partners that day.
Boy he must have been really shaken up!
The San Francisco Call reporter said several hundred fans paid 25 cents to watch Johnson train with his new spar mate[Smith] he reported they sparred 4 rounds and it was a good spar,

Nothing about a knockdown was even hinted. Page 174 & page 175 Jack Johnson . Adam Pollack.
The San Francisco Call went on to further say.
" There are a number of contradictory stories about the knockdown which Smith is said to have scored on Johnson,some said that Smith landed a looping punch on the jaw that took Johnson off his pins and landed him on his haunches."
Johnson said it was no knockdown,his manager said it was a slip,although it was a slip after Smith landed a blow."

The San Francisco Chronicle said." The story that Smith knocked Johnson down in a sparring exhibition Sunday afternoon was a bit far fetched.Johnson slipped on the canvas and the balance of the story was easy to concoct."

Johnson's manager said," the canvas should have been sprinkled but that was neglected,Johnson's foot slipped on the canvas and he partially fell ,that all there was to the story".

Its been speculated that it was a fake KD to gain new interest in the forthcoming Johnson v Ketchel fight,
Ketchel being a great right hand puncher like Smith,perhaps they were trying to introduce an air of vulnerability into Johnson's reputation to boost the gate?

I really don't know and I doubt anyone can say with any certainty.

I think much too much has been made of it anyway.

After Marciano was left hooked to the floor by Toxie Hall and his sparring for the day cancelled,he told a reporter," it was a good punch,but sparring is different you try out different things."

Nobody suggested Hall should then be in line for a title shot with Rocky, which DR Z has continually stated about Smith.

Smith said Johnson had been repeatedly tapping him on the nose with his jab and evading his replies ,maybe he lost his temper, and maybe that accounts for his unprofessional haymaker on his boss?

Johnson could get anybody's goat and Smith was a very hard hitter.

Bottom line assuming the KD was genuine what does it add up to?
A Champion was floored in a spar.

[Clegg]

We only have Smith's word to go on. Could be he was trying to talk himself up. But even if true, lots of great fighters got dropped in sparring

[Willie Pep 229]

New Flash a boxer was knocked down in sparring in1909! Hold the front page!
What is a MANGE is it some kind of skin disease Johnson was suffering from?

Nobody is as bigoted and anti Johnson as Dr Z!

The article suggests knocked out not down.

But of course the source is the hero of the moment (the article) making the claim a year later, so not much good.

What I don't get is that it came out on July 10th just days after the Reno fight and Jeffries defeat. Were whites so desperate that they had to go back to a sparring session a year earlier just to feel good about themseleves.

[Zaroku]

The article suggests knocked out not down.

But of course the source is the hero of the moment (the article) making the claim a year year later, so not much good.

What I don't get is that it came out on July 10th just days after the Reno fight and Jeffries defeat. Where whites so desperate that they had to go back to a sparring session a year earlier just to feel good about themseleves.

You I like

Jhonny is your buddy

[Ivich]

The article suggests knocked out not down.

But of course the source is the hero of the moment (the article) making the claim a year later, so not much good.

What I don't get is that it came out on July 10th just days after the Reno fight and Jeffries defeat. Were whites so desperate that they had to go back to a sparring session a year earlier just to feel good about themseleves.

DR Z says the article is headed knocked out. My guess is the White press were whistling in the dark trying to comfort themselves with the thought that if Smith could floor Johnson,Jeffries should be able to improve on that.As we know Johnson ,after the Jeffries fight said only one punch from Jeffries , a body shot in the 4th round really registered with him,he also said ,"its about the only round Jeffries did well in."

[Zaroku]

donkey Dong Jack jhon son who ****** white females

ok I really gotta read up on this

[Willow The Wisp]

The article suggests knocked out not down.

But of course the source is the hero of the moment (the article) making the claim a year later, so not much good.

What I don't get is that it came out on July 10th just days after the Reno fight and Jeffries defeat. Were whites so desperate that they had to go back to a sparring session a year earlier just to feel good about themseleves.

Yes they were. Yes. That a non white could prove to be superior by the test method of Mesothelioma, Egypt, Greece, Rome and Britain was a seismic shock to the entirety of the "master race". The impact cannot fully be understood today.

[GhostofDempsey]

New Flash a boxer was knocked down in sparring in1909! Hold the front page!
What is a MANGE is it some kind of skin disease Johnson was suffering from?

Nobody is as bigoted and anti Johnson as Dr Z!
Nowhere in Smiths statement does it say he knocked Johnson out ,on the contrary he expressly says he did not.
Nowhere in the article does it say Johnson was tko'd,which is what DRZ repeatedly states.
After sparring with Smith ,Johnson went 2 rounds with an LA lightweight named Arslinger and 2 rds with Johnny O Keefe a middleweight.
After O Keefe it was reported that Johnson went 2 rounds with Bob Armstrong, 2 rounds with Joe Lanum,and 2 rounds with Dave MIlls.

.So IF Smith dropped Johnson, Johnson then went a further 10 rounds with 5 different sparring partners that day.
Boy he must have been really shaken up!
The San Francisco Call reporter said several hundred fans paid 25 cents to watch Johnson train with his new spar mate[Smith] he reported they sparred 4 rounds and it was a good spar,

Nothing about a knockdown was even hinted. Page 174 & page 175 Jack Johnson . Adam Pollack.
The San Francisco Call went on to further say.
" There are a number of contradictory stories about the knockdown which Smith is said to have scored on Johnson,some said that Smith landed a looping punch on the jaw that took Johnson off his pins and landed him on his haunches."
Johnson said it was no knockdown,his manager said it was a slip,although it was a slip after Smith landed a blow."

The San Francisco Chronicle said." The story that Smith knocked Johnson down in a sparring exhibition Sunday afternoon was a bit far fetched.Johnson slipped on the canvas and the balance of the story was easy to concoct."

Johnson's manager said," the canvas should have been sprinkled but that was neglected,Johnson's foot slipped on the canvas and he partially fell ,that all there was to the story".

Its been speculated that it was a fake KD to gain new interest in the forthcoming Johnson v Ketchel fight,
Ketchel being a great right hand puncher like Smith,perhaps they were trying to introduce an air of vulnerability into Johnson's reputation to boost the gate?

I really don't know and I doubt anyone can say with any certainty.

I think much too much has been made of it anyway.

After Marciano was left hooked to the floor by Toxie Hall and his sparring for the day cancelled,he told a reporter," it was a good punch,but sparring is different you try out different things."

Nobody suggested Hall should then be in line for a title shot with Rocky, which DR Z has continually stated about Smith.

Smith said Johnson had been repeatedly tapping him on the nose with his jab and evading his replies ,maybe he lost his temper, and maybe that accounts for his unprofessional haymaker on his boss?

Johnson could get anybody's goat and Smith was a very hard hitter.

Bottom line assuming the KD was genuine what does it add up to?
A Champion was floored in a spar.

All that gibberish and you are wrong. The article clearly states at the top “Johnson knocked out”! Smith has been consistent over the course of his lifetime that he knocked Johnson down during a sparring match. Through the ropes in several accounts.

You go through great lengths to defend Johnson at all costs, to the point it seems you have an unhealthy fetish with him. Again you go off on these desperate tangents to throw up smoke screens. Now you want to bring Marciano into the fray when all you have to do is admit you were wrong for once in your life. The article headline clearly states knocked out, which is all Dr. Z said. While the headline is wrong (where have we heard that newspapers get it wrong?…ahem!), Dr. Z does not say Johnson was knocked out in his title or post, he is merely posting what the article printed.

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