Top 6 Trainers Ever?

[The Old LefHook]

Kearns was always in Dempsey's corner (until he wasn't) but I'm not sure what that makes him. He was the chief second and the one who spoke to Dempsey.

Kearns Story: After the first round in the Firpo fight Dempsey was out of it and asked Kearns what round was a coming up. Kearns had to tell him only 'the second' and Dempsey was aghast.

Good story. I still wonder if it is common practice for managers to be in corners. Kearns had to control everything, so it is understandable that he would be there. Plus he had some actual knowledge and experience boxing. But if I had to put him on a list of greatest anything, it would be on a 'greatest dishonest manipulator' list, along with Don King and others.

[Ivich]

Kearns had been a boxer, then he became a boxing manager and a coach, according to Wikipega. I don't think he belongs on this list, but he did train fighters. To what extent, I also do not know. I think his training of Dempsey was near the beginning, maybe the same for Walker. When someone has had 67 pro fights, it makes sense that they would know enough to put some ideas and techniques into their new charge's medicine bag.

I made a mistake saying Bimstein was Marciano's trainer, when I even knew better and just forgot. What a list Whitey had though. The article says he once handled every champion existing in boxing at the time.

Bundini, I do not know about. I included him because he was on Wikipega's list. I always thought of him as Clay's camp cheerleader, so would not have included him on my own volition. His job before Clay might reveal something?

If Lou Duva didn't train at least a few fighters, I would be surprised, but not shocked. It is just a conjecture, but I bet most of the people in the corner of a professional, high-level boxing match have spent some modicum of time coaching, other than the cut man. How many boxers have their manager in the corner? Is that a common practice? I probably never heard of it. Maybe managers do it all the time. If I knew, I wouldn't be asking.

Thanks for the corrections, but I am not absolutely sure they all are. At least twice I was blatantly wrong, as you pointed out; on a few other items I may have squeaked by, but should not have included several boys, especially Kearns on a list of the greatest. Most likiely Bundini too. My bad.

Kearns had a few fights ,name a boxer he trained,Dempsey and Walker are not candidates.
Kearns is held responsible for turning Walker into a lush.
Jimmy Deforest asst Teddy Hayes, and later, for his last fight Gus Wilson,and Jerry Luvardis trained Dempsey. when Leo P Flyyn took over the managerial reigns/
Bundini carried the bucket and cleaned SRR's kit that was the extent of his training before he became the court jester for Ali
You include whom you like

[Silence]

Eddie Futch is SRR of trainers.

[Ivich]

Eddie Futch is SRR of trainers.

Great strategist!

[Ivich]

Good story. I still wonder if it is common practice for managers to be in corners. Kearns had to control everything, so it is understandable that he would be there. Plus he had some actual knowledge and experience boxing. But if I had to put him on a list of greatest anything, it would be on a 'greatest dishonest manipulator' list, along with Don King and others.

Coming back to the corner Dempsey was in a fog he asked Kearns ,"what round was I knocked out in?"

[QueensburyRules]

Great strategist!

- - Joe didn't think so when he pulled the plug on Joe standing in the corner throwing punches in the 15th round in the Thriller while opposite Ali was screaming to Dundee to cut the gloves off.

[them_apples]

Ray Arcel - excellent ring generalship moves and set ups - lots of bareknuckle classic nods in his fighters
Freddie Browne - taught the baiting headmovement to Duran and Marciano
Eddie Futch - another good trainer in regards to inside fighting
Manny Stewart - Classic Kronk jabs and crosses
Bill Miller - excellent trainer in regards to the shoulder roll. I won't call it the shell, since Miller really knew how to set up counter punches with it, it wasn't a defensive posture.
Ignacio Beristáin as far as contemporary trainers go


Not sure about roach, Pacquiao was so talented to begin with and already a great fighter who needed some polishing. Pacquiaos former trainers whoever they may be, deserve a nod as well. Roach introduced him to better sparring, PED's and a better right hook, but well never know cause you could chaulk it all up as experience. Would be good if /roach had one fighter he made from the ground up. I'm not sure what roaches actual style is.

As far as Arcel and Duran, you can see Durans outside capability improve. Prior to this he was "rocky" Duran, an excellent inside pressure fighter with essentially no right cross. He grabbed the fencing stance off Arcel and learned a laser right cross.

[GhostofDempsey]

Ray Arcel - excellent ring generalship moves and set ups - lots of bareknuckle classic nods in his fighters
Freddie Browne - taught the baiting headmovement to Duran and Marciano
Eddie Futch - another good trainer in regards to inside fighting
Manny Stewart - Classic Kronk jabs and crosses
Bill Miller - excellent trainer in regards to the shoulder roll. I won't call it the shell, since Miller really knew how to set up counter punches with it, it wasn't a defensive posture.
Ignacio Beristáin as far as contemporary trainers go


Not sure about roach, Pacquiao was so talented to begin with and already a great fighter who needed some polishing. Pacquiaos former trainers whoever they may be, deserve a nod as well. Roach introduced him to better sparring, PED's and a better right hook, but well never know cause you could chaulk it all up as experience. Would be good if /roach had one fighter he made from the ground up. I'm not sure what roaches actual style is.

As far as Arcel and Duran, you can see Durans outside capability improve. Prior to this he was "rocky" Duran, an excellent inside pressure fighter with essentially no right cross. He grabbed the fencing stance off Arcel and learned a laser right cross.

Little unfair to say Roach introduced Manny to PEDs. No evidence of this. These were false accusations drummed up by Floyd to avoid Manny and stall the fight. As it turned out, it was Floyd who ultimately ended up in a very su****ious entanglement with an illegal IV.

Roach also improved some fighters like Cotto, who showed some new wrinkles in his game after signing on with Freddie.

[them_apples]

Little unfair to say Roach introduced Manny to PEDs. No evidence of this. These were false accusations drummed up by Floyd to avoid Manny and stall the fight. As it turned out, it was Floyd who ultimately ended up in a very su****ious entanglement with an illegal IV.

Roach also improved some fighters like Cotto, who showed some new wrinkles in his game after signing on with Freddie.

used to think this, until i started hanging around PED users. if you look at my old posts I defended pac aggressively. the only fair thing to say is a LOT of them are on peds' probably Floyd as well, just not as heavy. but Pacquiao has all the signs of someone on HGH.

Leg cramps, bone structure growth like his skull, strength increases or the same as he moved up. You can see his first run at welter he was only marginally stronger, popping a drained dlh with volume and eventually overwhelming him. Had DLH been heavier he probably would have walked through his shots a lot easier. As pac moves up he starts wacking guys even harder.

For the most part, both Canelo and Pac complain of leg cramps which is a telltail sign of PEDs. The way Canelo looks, anyone whos around dudes on gear can spot it a mile away.

If I was to guess, Pacquiao got on something around 130. Before that he looked natural.

Sort of like how you can tell Tyson got on some **** in the second Holyfield fight, and also ended up biting his ear. LOL. makes perfect sense actually. the sports greasy.

whats crazy to think though, is what would someone like Foreman or Duran look like on enhancers. Those guys had such naturally high levels to begin with.

With some of the gangsters roach knows, I could only imagine what they were thinking when they found a fireball like Pacquiao. Give him peds and push him over the top he'll be too much for anyone even bigger dudes. And he was.

[The Old LefHook]

I remember Futch touting Mosley as the next great coming thing, another light like Robinson. Great trainer, but I guess his judgement was not infallible. Mosley was a damned good fighter, but not a great one IMO.