Louis vs Charles

[Dr. Z]

Charles really beat Louis to the punch standing toe to toe with him at times. Louis face was a mess. Five years ago he still outbox Louis, just like Schmeling, Conn and Walcott did, expect Louis would have more quickness and fighting ending power. Don't dismiss Charles chances here.

[QueensburyRules]

Charles really beat Louis to the punch standing toe to toe with him at times. Louis face was a mess. Five years ago he still outbox Louis, just like Schmeling, Conn and Walcott did, expect Louis would have more quickness and fighting ending power. Don't dismiss Charles chances here.

- - We ain't dismissing Ez when history shows 5 yrs prior, Joe does it for us...dismissed from class for the day...

[Ivich]

Charles really beat Louis to the punch standing toe to toe with him at times. Louis face was a mess. Five years ago he still outbox Louis, just like Schmeling, Conn and Walcott did, expect Louis would have more quickness and fighting ending power. Don't dismiss Charles chances here.

Louis said a prime version of himself would have gotten rid of Charles in about 7 rounds.I agree.
Walcott didnt beat Louis.
Schmeling beat a pre prime Louis by countering with his right hand over Joe's out of position left.
Conn was ko'd in both their fights. After the War Louis was a facsimile of the fighter he had been before it.

[Ivich]

Louis is 218 lbs in this fight. This was a weak post. Usyks best weight was 200. Holyfield's 175

How come Louis isn't allowed to pack on weight?

Apart from you who says Uyk's best weight was 200lbs?

[Willow The Wisp]

Little things argued over with such enthusiasm.

[Ivich]

Little things argued over with such enthusiasm.

It's a boxing site what would you like us to debate over?
The effect of impressionism on early cinema?
What is Hemingway's best novel?
Is W H Auden a better poet than Dylan Thomas?
Is Kurosawa a finer director than Martin Scorsese?
Did Eisenstein invent the montage in films when he made Battleship Potemkin?
Has anyone equalled Sinatra as an interpreter of the Great American Song Book?
Was George Gershwin an authentic genius?
Is Depardieu the best actor to come out of France?
Did The Marshal Plan save post war Germany?

[Dr. Z]

Louis said a prime version of himself would have gotten rid of Charles in about 7 rounds.I agree.
Walcott didnt beat Louis.
Schmeling beat a pre prime Louis by countering with his right hand over Joe's out of position left.
Conn was ko'd in both their fights. After the War Louis was a facsimile of the fighter he had been before it.

Yet Louis lost to Schmeling, would have lost if the fight was 12 rounds vs Conn, lost on a fair score card to Walcott the first time ( A ringside poll of 32 boxing writers had 21 scoring the bout for Walcott, ten scoring it for Louis ) was well behind in the second fight prior to the KO, and had the door beat off him in the Charles and Marciano fights. These five men were the best Louis fought. And if scored under the ten point must system he definitely losses the first time to Walcott even with " those judges " All five men beat him with the modern 12 rounds10 point must system. Joe Louis fans won't like what I said. He's still great, but these are true words. 100%.

[Ivich]

Yet Louis lost to Schmeling, would have lost if the fight was 12 rounds vs Conn, lost on a fair score card to Walcott the first time ( A ringside poll of 32 boxing writers had 21 scoring the bout for Walcott, ten scoring it for Louis ) was well behind in the second fight prior to the KO, and had the door beat off him in the Charles and Marciano fights. These five men were the best Louis fought. And if scored under the ten point must system he definitely losses the first time to Walcott even with " those judges " All five men beat him with the modern 12 rounds10 point must system. Joe Louis fans won't like what I said. He's still great, but these are true words. 100%.

Nope If the fight was scheduled for 12 rds Louis would have started pressuring earlier.No one alive knows who deserved the 1st Walcott fight because nobody has seen the full fight.The fights were scored under the system in use at that time and fights cannot be subject to such arbitrary reyisionism to make a tenuous point for a poster.
Louis wasn't "well behind," in the 2nd Walcott fight,I judge the referee had him in front one had him a point down and only Harold Barnes who left boxing under a cloud had Walcott well in front.
Many fighters have been behind and come back to win.To use a popular expression."it ain't over till its over." Louis lost 3 fights 1 when he was pre prime and overconfident,1 when he was 36 coming back after a 2years retirement and 1, in his last fight when he at 37 had no business being in a ring.

[Dr. Z]

Nope If the fight was scheduled for 12 rds Louis would have started pressuring earlier.No one alive knows who deserved the 1st Walcott fight because nobody has seen the full fight.The fights were scored under the system in use at that time and fights cannot be subject to sucharbitrary reyisionism to make a tenuous point for a poster.

This is why I point out the fact that only 10 of 32 scored it for Louis. You can still see some of the rounds, and the crowds reaction to the decision was that of sound booing and hissing. Watch it. Louis knows he lost and his body language reflects that. I have spoken to people that have passed and they said Walcott won the fight. They saw it. The fights went 15 rounds and was not scored under the modern 10 point must system. If it was Walcott has two 10-8 rounds and wins easy...even with his judges that were booed. Pay attention to what I wrote, the best five men who Lewis fought beat him under modern rules.

[mrbig1]

I love watching video of Joe Louis. To me he is damn near a perfect fighter. He fought in a box. No wild swings like Fraizer or Tyson. these was short power shots that were just as powerful as Joe or Mike. 12 years as champ. defending his title 25 times. I'm not saying he's the goat. A prime joe Louis would have KOed Charles. Which is taking nothing away from Charles who was an outstanding fighter. Also, upstand that I'm tore up from the floor up. So, I have shown the heart of a champion. Overcoming being tore up to write this. You're welcome.